a sewer/cave system under the cities

[Falonthas]

i stumbled across this thought since there are chances now for the dark side of pc's to be in evidence,you would not really see them walking the city streets.

in daylight they would use the sewers or caves to make their way around,while at night when the good little city folk are snug in their beds
the less than desirable entities are about in plain sight

perhaps a tie in to a few fences and not so normally seen shrines

"dont go through the door to the left !
why not?
cause noone uses that privy since old two fingers vanished in there...."

edited for those who dont have english as a native tongue,or its slang.

[Kindo]

Who are 'they'?

[MJZ]

Alright, I can guess what you're suggesting but I can hardly understand anything you said. Could you please put a little more effort into posts so that we can read them without gasping for air? Say, grammar and punctuation?

An underground system for the dark elves and possibly monstrous races to hide out in? My question is, would those different racial groups really tolerate one another?

And I can't figure out what you mean about "fences" and shrines. O.o

[Stephen_Zuckerman]

A fence is a place to sell stolen goods. A shrine is a little templeish thing.

[Flaron1990]

Yeah, I like the idea, an underground, a darker side to the good, not every one in Port Hempstead want to see it grow. There are those who wouldn't give dung on a stick about the welfare of the government, and indeed would much rather perfer to live by their own rules instead of the coppers. I love the idea, adds a spark of chaos to the world, which is something (I think), is most beautiful to hear *wipes the tear*.
Any way, it could easily bring around so much wonderful things like theft, gang wars, internal strife, and a way to storm the city with out damaging those so very prety walls. Sewers, the dishonoust mans way to glory.

[OldBear]

One could even tie in a few steps going up to say the local tavern's back room.  One thing we don't have much of is back doors to places and dark narrow twisting alleys.  With the world growing darker, so should the alleys.  Just a thought.

[LightlyFrosted]

Such a system would open a few new interesting parts and provide some RP challenges - while there's no real embargo on people entering cities at present, if an invading army can delve into a cave not far from Port Hempstead and end up in the mercantile area... well, if such a thing were not used with extreme discretion, it would most certainly lead to the implementation of a guarding system, if not a full-blown plastering up of the hole in its entirety.

[Dorganath]

Interesting idea!

But...Two points of information here:

1) Port Hempstead has multiple major Dark Elf attacks in its history, so any "undercity" that may exist will most likely be well-watched, though I'm not the final authority on that city.

2) From a technical aspect, our modules are getting very, very full, especially West.  Adding an entire undercity to some place like Port Hempstead would add a fair number of areas and such to the modules, so adding more areas will add more lag and bloat and stuff.

None of the above is a "no" but if it doesn't happen, whether in Port Hempstead or somewhere else, then there are likely solid reasons against doing it.

There are other locales though where that may make more sense in both regards.

[Falonthas]

i understand the bloated module aspect,but wouldnt other then maybe a tavern or an inn ,be tied into existing interiors,just with another access

a fence may be working the end of the bar in the one eyed harpy or even through a trap door under the pawn shop in hempstead

tunnels/sewer crawlways would not have to be large but just enough to give access to the underbelly,a large cavern that has a normal opening behind a pond or through some rocks that most passerbys would miss

you may only have one or two tunnels into a place and others where the law just dosnt have such a firm grasp,the undercity would be larger,an open place for those of ill repute to walk about and sell their ill gotten gains

like tortuga of the pirate ages,
one of the existing isles could be solely for the hidden scum of the realms to reign supreme,everyone knows its there but civilized folk just wouldnt be caught dead there.

[darkstorme]

Well, the only problem I can see (RP-wise) with the idea is that if it's just a criminal element, that's largely what Vehl is for.  If petty thieves or pickpockets are caught in the more affluent areas of Hempstead, I imagine they'd get rather short shrift from the guards anyway.  The docks may be another story, but it seems a well-guarded area, where the law is enforced.  Therefore, if there were an undercity, it'd be the home of well-established and well-connected gangs... because any other group could quickly be ferreted out by any wizards scrying for the guard, and routed by the Hempstead police force.

Basically, if there were to be a seedy underbelly to Hempstead, if the guards were going to ignore it, I'd imagine it to be a "grey market" at best; not Tortuga, but something that serves a useful purpose in the populace, and would be more trouble to put down than it's worth.

If I'm misreading Hempstead, on the other hand.. I'd appreciate correction.

[Pen N Popper]

I think there are sewers already in Hempstead.  You wouldn't expect them to be snug and warm, would you?  Go carve up some rats for dinner.  :-)

[vgn]

There are a few things that could be done in Hempstead without leading to bloat and similar things could be done elsewhere with some creativity.
As someone mentioned there are already sewers in Hempstead. You could do something as simple as have a few entrances/exits added. One that maybe opens in an alley near a crafthall or the merchant district, maybe one that has a crawlspace to the fields outside town. Adding transitions with nifty descriptions does cost much in the module.

In Prantz, a shadier temple there is already underground. So why not have an extra exit or two from there as well. Maybe one that lands outside the city and another than gets you in another part of town.

The key I think is just putting some nice descriptions on them so it's not just a transition but is worded to be like a tunnel/crawlspace/etc.

[stragen]

As someone mentioned there are already sewers in Hempstead. You could do something as simple as have a few entrances/exits added. One that maybe opens in an alley near a crafthall or the merchant district, maybe one that has a crawlspace to the fields outside town. Adding transitions with nifty descriptions does cost much in the module.

This is a really good idea.  

In Prantz, a shadier temple there is already underground. So why not have an extra exit or two from there as well. Maybe one that lands outside the city and another than gets you in another part of town.

Again, there is already a sewer system under Prantz, so this should also be used to link to other exits.

[Falonthas]

and i think dont quote me on it,but cant any AT tie into the " underbelly" setup ?
and not cause much module bloat?

....you dont have to add much more then the undercavern and its walkable inn and tavern like the herbalists in hempstead

...a fence stall and some basic merchants who "lost their licenses to sell in towns for bad business ethics"   around the cavern


immersion can give us the tunnels and the door in places already existing can always lead there,since we have alot of doors that go nowhere

so utilize doors already in existance and the cavern itself can be said to be under gnoll watch or some place similar

maybe one long tunnel to leringard