Center new starting location Great... but... ;)

[Hellblazer]

Alright, now that we have a new central starting location that actually attracts people to rp which is a good thing, I would like to propose something that might even help a little more.

I want to suggest that the portal to Dalanthar be moved to center, and that a portal to Miritrix (300gp) be created in center also. This way people who have a trips planned could meet at center and stay there to rp with their groups and any other people that might be there but not part of the trip without worrying of how much time it would take to move to a certain point. This would in fact reduce quite a lot the travel time needed to go to Miritrix and the higher level grounds, enabling the higher levels to spend more time in one place to promote rp, making Center even more a center of gathering and rp.

Just a suggestion.

[Dorganath]

It's a good suggestion, and it's come up before...during the design phase of Center, in fact!

However, if you put too many ways to get out of Center, it becomes just a pass-through point, not a gathering point.  If you make it too easy to leave, people won't stay. The Dalanthar portal isn't all that far away, in truth...something like 4 transitions, I think.

As for a portal to Miritrix, it's not going to happen. It's already pretty easy to get there through Nith, which is far, far quicker than it was prior to that route being put in place. Fort Miritrix and points beyond are supposed to take time to reach. They're supposed to be an investment. Otherwise, we'd just put them all within easy reach.

Believe me, I hear and understand the logic...and like I said, it's come up before. The difficulty of reaching Miritrix and the time required is part of game balance. Nith threw that off a bit, but I don't really see a need or reason to make it any shorter.

[Hellblazer]

I understand your point, and I do agree with it, to a point. In this phase of the server life span, where we are looking for things that would retain player, this is one of them. Giving the players that have little hours to play consecutively a way to be able to party with their friends and enjoy the camaraderie and rp that happens while they travel will be a step toward that.

Now a days I'm sure that a lot of people look at the server status, see some friends on and the first question they ask themselves is, am I going to be able to do stuff with them, do I have the time? Well if it was quick yes, if it takes me 15 minute to get to the point where we would go no.

15 minute doesn't seem long, but if you add that to the pre trip rp and waiting for others people that would like to come but are completely on the other side of the server, it adds up to a lot and it does putt off people to even log in, and that in a sense goes exactly on the opposite of what you are looking when you are trying to get people to log in and remain playing in the long run.

[Hellblazer]

An other way to approach this would be taking LOTRO for example, and I'm sure they are not the only ones. They made it possible for one class to guide people to certain towns in the world (port the pc's that are grouped with that class to one point, and before we jump in the this is a low magic world, I'd suggest you think about Tolkien world, it's even lower in magic than layo is). They have also the sort of equivalence of our boat system with their horse travel system, but to the difference that theirs take you for the ride, but they also do have a swift travel mode. Now their horse system is way more extensive than the boat/portal we have. This is something that could be worked on.

And it could become an other gold sink for you guys, you just need to balance it a bit more than it is now.

[Dremora]

Making it a pass-through point does not change the fact that Center will still retain lower level characters because an -kicking is on the way if they stray too far into areas that will maim them. If its a pass-through point, higher levels will visit and may come across players; I already see this with high levels dashing past the Bull's eye and if they want to RP they do and if they dont, they ignore the party at the campfire. I am not sure it will actually change Center's function in the negative way you are suggesting Dorg. But thats just from what I see, I may be wrong but it could still be trialed and if it doesnt work, simply take it out. Can't be that difficult to insert and remove one portal from one map and then connecting it to the other major portals?

I think Dalanthar and the like should be left alone anyway.. but if people want a portal to major areas.. they go two trans, enter Caliomel's and buzz off anyhow. Placing one in Center won't change people's goals when they enter the area. They are there for RP or to pass through. Making it harder to pass through just means they won't go there unless they have reason to such as RP or to reach the other side (see above for how they will run past anyway).

[Dorganath]

No, it's not difficult to move a portal (in a mechanical sense) to Center or create another one in Center. I also don't really mind if there's a portal somewhere nearby Center. Even years ago, when the start location was Hlint, people would gather there and leave for far-flung destinations, sometimes taking someone's housing portal as a starting point. These aren't really at issue, in part because housing portals don't really go close to any high-value locations. I know people won't stop if they don't want to. I know there's quick ways to get far away in a relatively short amount of time.

As a general comment, comparing our system and LoTRO or any other game is not a straight, or fair, comparison.  Their game systems are different on probably just about every level.  Their world was designed with all the quick-travel options in mind.

Ours was not. Part of the overall game balance is here is time, meaning how long it takes to get certain things.  The high-order CNR is a long trip and difficult to get for a reason.  The value of those resources is elevated as a result.  The power-level provided by those resources is likewise elevated. These should be the rarest and most difficult-to-get resources in the world.  That's why there's a time investment to go there.

Fort Miritrix is essentially a gateway to much/most of the truly high-level content in this world (with a few lesser exceptions), and so I have an issue with putting such a gateway literally a step away from the lowest level content on the server. If we wanted such content to be easy to reach, it would be on Mistone.

If a portal to Fort Miritrix were ever put in game, I don't think it makes any sense to put it in Center, mechanically or RPly.  I also find the concept that shaving off fifteen minutes from a trip to the Deep will help retain players. There are other things we can do to ease the time commitment for the trip itself without bringing it closer than it already is.

[Hellblazer]

Who said anything about the deep or even CNR. I'm talking of plain trips with friends here. I understand that you want to keep the whole balance thing in mind but at the same time not too long ago, the restrictions on the +3 items were lifted to make them more available because there was a lot more toons in the level 17+ range and also probably partly due to the opening of the 21 and up levels without an ECL, so that point of view kinda goes against that also, at least the way I see it.

No matter how you put it, the trip to titanium/mithril/emeralds will always take a few hours, placing a portal that would facilitate people to group for just going around on trips and rping on those, will not change that. And you're already controlling the production of yew by having only one tree available (at least that me and those I talked to know of), while Voltrex is closed off to the general population. Again, placing a portal wont affect the balance of that. Beside you need a very specialized team if mid high levels (20-25) to get it, or a small specialized team of high levels (25+) to get it, again as I see it.

I can't say if they added the swift travel in the planning or after customers feedback, I haven't found any information about it in their dev log yet. But there's nothing that would prevent you from doing it now, there's already systems for it on the vault that you could adapt. But at the same time, with the numbers of area you have, although each area is smaller, the world in it self is probably as big.. maybe even bigger than some of the others games out there, it just takes us a lot more transitions to go through.

[Dorganath]

For balance reasons, I have to take trips for CNR into account when planning stuff like direct access to the "richest" (by XP, GP, loot and CNR) locations in the game world. If I make it easier to just go run around the Great Forest, it's inherently easier to get to the Deep.  Fort Miritrix is the usual gateway for both.

And you are correct that a more pervasive quick-travel system could be put into place, but again we'd have to plan and figure out the impact making some things more accessible, so it's not just a bolt-on solution.

And for clarity...I'm not completely opposed to making the world "smaller" in terms of travel, but some places in the game world should not be really convenient, at least not without a little tweaking to what is available in those places.

[Hellblazer]

Well then let's see what could be done about it? I know from talks with others over the years, some which are no longer here, other that are attempting a come back, that it will help. It's a small thing, although not in planning, but in term of the player perceptions, add that to other things and it will accumulate to something.