Combinding some skills

[Eegxeta]

In Pathfinder (which is based on D&D 3.5) spot, listen, and search are combined into one skill Perception. Being good in spot, listen, and search takes a lot of skill points. It also lets classes with few skill points per level be able to spot, listen, and search with a better chance of succeeding. Really only rogues get enough skill points to really get good with them.

The people who made Pathfinder did a really good job of fixing many of the problems with D&D 3.5 while keeping it D&D and not a video game like D&D 4.0 edition.

[Dorganath]

OK well first of all, NWN is 3.0, not 3.5 and it's certainly not Pathfinder, though there is definitely a lot of good about Pathfinder.  That's another topic, however.

Besides the fact that these skills are pretty deeply entrenched in creature build and balance considerations and things like that, their individual function is also hard coded into the game engine for a variety of things, and that's beyond our ability to adjust.

Even if we could change that, it would break or disadvantage every PC that currently exists that already has points put into Search, Spot and/or Listen.

So, as interesting as Pathfinder is, NWN is not, and cannot be, Pathfinder.  To paint this more generally, a lot of compromises and assumptions are made when creating a computer-based game out of a table-top game that's as rich as most RPG systems out there.

[darkstorme]

It's also worth noting that Rogues have a number of disadvantages (low hitpoints, low saves, no armour) that the increase in skill points is meant to offset.

Every class has its plusses and minuses.

[Eegxeta]

It's also worth noting that Rogues have a number of disadvantages (low hitpoints, low saves, no armour) that the increase in skill points is meant to offset.

Every class has its plusses and minuses.

Yes that is true but that is not what I'm talking about I'm talking the fact that a party without a rouge is blind and deaf because rouges are the only class with enough skill points to be good at spot, listen, and search without taking from other skills. This is more to rangers, bards and to some extent the spell caster classes.

[Eegxeta]

Besides the fact that these skills are pretty deeply entrenched in creature build and balance considerations and things like that, their individual function is also hard coded into the game engine for a variety of things, and that's beyond our ability to adjust.

I was thinking more of a mod that make it when you put points into spot, listen, and search it counts for all three. So not making new skills just modifying it so the skill point in one skill count for all three. And for characters that have points these skills could get the point in the other skills back.

I really should have put this in the other post.

[RollinsCat]

Blind and deaf without a rogue?  I'd have to disagree - rogues are great, I have one - but there are other classes that get hide and sneak or invis for scouting.  My bard has been a scout on more than a few occasions, despite having a spot of exactly zero.

skill points reflect your focus and it makes sense to me that sight based ones are different from listen based ones.  My bard can't see his hand in front of his face without his glasses on but he can hear most things coming from a good distance.  it's all about allocation and carving out what is important to your character, and accepting limitations.  No one can or should be good at everything.

[Dorganath]

I was thinking more of a mod that make it when you put points into spot, listen, and search it counts for all three. So not making new skills just modifying it so the skill point in one skill count for all three. And for characters that have points these skills could get the point in the other skills back.

There's no way for the game engine created by Bioware to let these skills spill over onto the other. It's going to interpret each as individual skills.

As for any sort of mod we might put in place to do that external to the game engine, that too is something enforced by NWN, as we have enabled checks to be sure all characters are "legal" by Bioware's math, in terms of how many skill points, feats, ability points and so forth that a character should have for a given level. In order for the engine to use the same number of points for all three of those skills, we'd have to add skill points to a character, making them "illegal" and thereby unplayable.  Characters with points already in one of the other two skills would not automatically "get them back." This is not just as simple as deciding at the gaming table to use this house rule, erase skill points from one line and reassign them elsewhere on the character sheet.  There are technological limitations that prevent us from doing such things.

Again, the game (NWN) and the game world (Layonara) was built upon a balance profile of D&D 3.0...not 3.5 and not Pathfinder. Most of the core game mechanics are hard-coded into the NWN game engine. There's a lot we can change, but some things are beyond our reach or too "expensive" in terms of manpower and time investment.  It may not be perfect or even preferred, but we do have to work, for the most part, within the constraints of 3.0 mechanics and we absolutely have to adhere to what is hard-coded into the NWN game engine.