Item breakage or Item attuning

[Guardian 452]

Please for the love of everything holy stay away from the item breakage route. Who wants an item they have earned thru blood, sweat and a sore bum from sitting at their PC to go poof 3 hours into The Deep?  Not me!  LOL

Item Breakage:

I cant speak for others but if Item breakage were implemented I would take the following steps (if I continuted to play).

1. I would stop equiping anything that wasn't EASILY replaced anytime I was in a situation where breakage could happen (thus causing lag by having more inventory)
2. Depending on the frequency of said breakage, I would carry "X" times more equipment to compensate this system... (thus causing more lag by having a bloated inventory)

Now an item damage system exists today in EQ2. Each time your toon dies you equipment takes 5% damage... when you equipment reaches 0% you can no longer equip it untill you see a "mender" to repair your items. The higher end the items the more the repairs cost.

I dont see the system above doing anything to take items out of circulation. I see it more as a punishment when you loose a rare / impossible to replace item... and I see the Cracefull Pleas and grievances going thru the roof!!!


Item Attuning:

Look into attuning, or binding an item to your person. Taking items once equipped by a player out of the market and not allowing them to be handed down for ever and ever as we do now.

EQ2 also has this attuning system virtually all items if you choose to equip them. You must first attune them. Then they can no longer be traded to any other players in the game. They can be sold for coin, or donated to your god.

As a player and a Crafter I would be 110% for an item attuning system!!! Crafters would be more in demand, and I beleve prices would stay more resonable as well.


I dont know if either system is even possible in NwN... my guess is not, or we would have something in place already (cause we all know its needed to assist this economy). I just wanted to get this out there... probably not the 1st thread on these issues, and im sure it wont be the last... LOL


G-452

[RollinsCat]

as a former (reformed?) hard-core WoW raider, I am all for attuning items.  no drop or soulbound, as they put it.  keeps the item off the market so things have worth.  Add the repair system as well to bleed some gold.  I can tell you my repair bills on a level eighty tank in Ulduar or ToC were...oh, lots.  Lots and lots.  LOTS.  good way to keep gold funneling out of the economy and something for the upcoming Layo to consider.

[miltonyorkcastle]

Add the repair system

http://forums.layonara.com/layonara-mmo/

[Guardian 452]

Yeah dont get me wrong there I am all for a money sink in repairing my equipment, just no "poof & its gone" system.

That can you imagine the grievances and gracefull pleas a "poof & its gone" breakage system would generate?  LOL

Anyone who was here when Rustmonsters were in quite common areas will know exactly what I am talking about.

G-452

[Ravemore]

LOL... bring the rust monsters back.

*Runs and hides as a fighter throws a rock at him*

[Dorganath]

NWN will not have item breakage as a mechanical system.

The MMO will have it, and at this point* it will not be a "poof it's gone" sort of system, but rather a "poof it's broke and you can't use it right now and I hope you have a backup" sort of system.  Actually "poof" isn't really the right word because there will be warning.  You'll have to wait on other details because...I'm not telling!

* subject to change plus several other disclaimers

[Guardian 452]

Well if not Poof its gone....  how about SHAZAMMM its gone or WHOOOSH its gone?  or BOOMSHAKALAKA its gone?

ROTFLOL  

[miltonyorkcastle]

I vote for "BOOMSHAKALAKA."

[ShiffDrgnhrt]

I prefer Kaboom...

[darkstorme]

Item breakage/item damage would involve either a massive iteration through all items in a character's inventory on their death (lag!) or onHit scripts for all weapons (lag!).

I think, were it not for the idiosyncrasies of the NWN engine, that "poof, your sword has snapped in two" would be quite reasonable, as would being able to repair it.  But as Dorg said, not going to happen in NWN.

[lonnarin]

Anybody wanting to have their mithral longsword break for RP purposes can flag down a GM in game.  Probably wouldn't even cost them a CDQ slot.

[Dorganath]

Anybody wanting to have their mithral longsword break for RP purposes can flag down a GM in game.  Probably wouldn't even cost them a CDQ slot.

Correct!  

[Hellblazer]

NWN will not have item breakage as a mechanical system.

The MMO will have it, and at this point* it will not be a "poof it's gone" sort of system, but rather a "poof it's broke and you can't use it right now and I hope you have a backup" sort of system.  Actually "poof" isn't really the right word because there will be warning.  You'll have to wait on other details because...I'm not telling!

* subject to change plus several other disclaimers

Well that is part of a solution, but not the full one. I think that after a certain amount of bommshakalapoofpiff and repair, you sword or item should become unusable permanently. I think it should be a fair amount though, not just two or three or four repairs. Maybe after a dozen or so. This way it would give the chance to the player to put money aside to get an other one when the first one has reached the end of the road. I mean even if you keep repairing them, after a time, a metal becomes just to brittle from constant reforging. And this way you do make a cycle through the crafting system, of good being sold and created on a fairly often basis, that your crafting system has a purpose other than being a gold sinking wormhole, and is actually creating a functioning economy. Crafters will have money to pay gatherers to get the cnrs they need. The gatherers will have money to buy their gear, and the pure adventurer will get a way to use that money instead of it accumulating into the millions at a bank.

[Erik K]

millions? what millions   dont know about the rest of you, but most of my characters barely scrape by and cant afford new gear most of the time.  let alone repair what they have alread bought.  breakage sounds great for crafters, not so good for the rest of us.  if the whole breakage thing gets implemented, either the gold needs to be increased or you will have a lot of adventureres, turned crafters making a lot of what they need.   as far as hiring adventurers to do the gathering, unless they dont have much time, it pays in gold and XP to gather and most people I know, do it themselves.   just my two cents.  

[Carillon]

Just to reiterate, there is not going to be a breakage system in the NWN version of Layonara. I think this was stated pretty clearly above, so if you're stressing over NWN economics fitting a breakage system, take a breath! It isn't happening.

The MMO, as stated above, will have a breakage system. It will also have a number of other things, and likely an entirely different economic situation and/or crafting system, so I do not think it makes sense to stress about item breakage/damage for a crafting system or an economic system that has not yet been released in any detail. Let's just have a little trust that if people are putting the thought into having a system where items can be damaged and repaired, they are also aware of the impact that will have and that they have considered the overall balance picture, both for economics and for player fun. Until we see the big picture and how it all fits together, all worrying is going to result in is very little clarity ... and possibly an ulcer or a headache!

[Script Wrecked]

Well that is part of a solution, but not the full one. I think that after a certain amount of bommshakalapoofpiff and repair, you sword or item should become unusable permanently. I think it should be a fair amount though, not just two or three or four repairs. Maybe after a dozen or so. This way it would give the chance to the player to put money aside to get an other one when the first one has reached the end of the road. I mean even if you keep repairing them, after a time, a metal becomes just to brittle from constant reforging. And this way you do make a cycle through the crafting system, of good being sold and created on a fairly often basis, that your crafting system has a purpose other than being a gold sinking wormhole, and is actually creating a functioning economy. Crafters will have money to pay gatherers to get the cnrs they need. The gatherers will have money to buy their gear, and the pure adventurer will get a way to use that money instead of it accumulating into the millions at a bank.

Unfortunately, it will never be a "functioning economy" while there is an infinite supply of gold available from "killing the monsters and stealing their treasure"(1).

In the OC, the gold is injected into "the system" by the monsters, and taken out of the system by the store merchants(2). Having a crafting system allows the characters to act as store merchants (the provider of goods) and retains the gold in the system.

Someone will always be "accumulating into the millions at a bank", because gold is continuously being injected into the system. A player based economy doesn't diminish the amount of gold in the system, it just changes who has it at any particular time.



(1) the whole premise of the D&D game
(2) who are then presumably set upon by the monsters as their source of gold

[Hellblazer]

millions? what millions   dont know about the rest of you, but most of my characters barely scrape by and cant afford new gear most of the time.  let alone repair what they have alread bought.  breakage sounds great for crafters, not so good for the rest of us.  if the whole breakage thing gets implemented, either the gold needs to be increased or you will have a lot of adventureres, turned crafters making a lot of what they need.   as far as hiring adventurers to do the gathering, unless they dont have much time, it pays in gold and XP to gather and most people I know, do it themselves.   just my two cents.  

Just to reiterate, there is not going to be a breakage system in the NWN version of Layonara. I think this was stated pretty clearly above, so if you're stressing over NWN economics fitting a breakage system, take a breath! It isn't happening.

I'm referring for the MMO. IN MMO worlds it is rather easy to get hundred of thousands if not millions in your bank accounts, due to the nature of how things works. I'm hoping this will not be the case with the Layonara MMO version, but still that is a trend that is usually true in those type of games.

[Dorganath]

Yes well, further speculation about what is or isn't in the MMO, what our balance picture is for item fatigue and the like, if there is an ultimate point where an item becomes irreparable and anything else related to this particular topic is going to remain undisclosed at this point.  

You may, of course, debate, propose, suggest, lament or otherwise mull over the benefits and pitfalls of such a system to your heart's content, but those of us on the MMO team have really nothing more to say about this at this time.

This is not a matter of simply withholding information but rather the fact that the particulars are not in (or near even) their final state.  But with the understanding that the economics of the MMO are going to be vastly different and that many, many things will work together, in concert, to make it work as a whole, focusing on one aspect is really not going to be productive in the end.  Unlike NWN, there is actually a plan for MMO economics, and this plan touches everything from what drops, to what can be harvested and what must be purchased and what must be obtained via some sort of quest, the dynamics of crafting, the durability of items, the system of repair, and many, many other things.

There is much unknown, I realize, but it's rather difficult and ultimately a dead-end to make too many assumptions or draw parallels from other MMOs.  Trust me when I say that a lot of consideration has gone into this very thing and how it is not just a bolt-on system but a small part of a much larger thing.

[Guardian 452]

We (well at least I) understand an item damage, breakage, and repair system is not possible with NwN.

What about an item atuning system?

G-452


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[Guardian 452]

In the simlplest terms I viewed this working like our soul stones do now.

Before activated... anyone can hand it to anyone. But once activated it simply wont go into the trade window anymore.


Would adding that to every equipable item in the pallet really be that big of an undertaking?  *hides in his nuclear fallout bunker*


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