pawn shop limit per character and not overall limit.

[cbnicholson]

Actually, that's mostly the point.  If lower level characters are the only ones with access to Hemp and Vehl pawnshops and close surrounding ones, those shops shouldn't run out of coin to give for all the low level stuff that is turned in - given a cap of 35k.  My understanding from reading this thread is that large amounts of crafted cnr is being turned in for coin, thus draining the pawnshops.  I think this solution makes the server more new player friendly and would help alleviate the problem.

[jrizz]

Low level CNR generates just as much coin as high level drops. Cut and polished alaxandrite is a gold mine. So maybe the pawn shops should be limited to both Class level and Crafting levels so that once you hit the gemcrafters "money maker" you can no longer use those pawn shops.
 
 
 Note: By top payment pawn shop I mean the ones that pay 1000 true as the highest price. I think if they are going to be set as low level pawn shops then they should be set down to the lowest payment shops at 350 true as the highest they will pay. And the top payment shops should be moved to more remote locations.

[cbnicholson]

Low level CNR generates just as much coin as high level drops. Cut and polished alexandrite is a gold mine. So maybe the pawn shops should be limited to both Class level and Crafting levels so that once you hit the gem crafters "money maker" you can no longer use those pawn shops.
 

I really don't see why this would be a bad thing for 10th lvl characters or lower.  They are the ones that need more coin for gear to prepare for higher lvls.   Is this really a problem? Or is it higher lvl characters doing this exact thing that drains the pawnshops?  I'm curious as to what kinds of data the admins have access to now in regards to who is doing what with the pawnshops.

Note: By top payment pawn shop I mean the ones that pay 1000 true as the highest price. I think if they are going to be set as low level pawn shops then they should be set down to the lowest payment shops at 350 true as the highest they will pay. And the top payment shops should be moved to more remote locations.

Isn't this the same as arguing for a continuation of the status quo?

[Dorganath]

I really don't see why this would be a bad thing for 10th lvl characters or lower.  They are the ones that need more coin for gear to prepare for higher lvls.   Is this really a problem? Or is it higher lvl characters doing this exact thing that drains the pawnshops?  I'm curious as to what kinds of data the admins have access to now in regards to who is doing what with the pawnshops.

We don't log pawn shops, but if the community wants a "campaign of shame" we certainly could.  I'm not particularly keen on the idea, but if we must, we must.

[jrizz]

@CB it is really not high level loot drops that are draining the pawnshops. It is crafters and among the crafts gem crafting is by far the best way to gain true from pawn shops (followed closely by infusing).
 
 There really are not enough high level drops to drain the pawnshops everytime the server resets.
 
 I always thought pawn shops were put in place so that unused drops could be taken out of the stream. Maybe unfinshed CNR should not be pawnable.

[Lareth]

I had a thought which I'm sure would likely be horrible to try and script... but could we get it so that..

If lvl 10 or less preserve the cap on what is paid out e.g. 35000 but only count amounts say over 50gp (insert whatever amount) towards that, thereby allowing you to sell all those low level scrolls, star.dusts etc. even when the big money has run out.

For everyone else, just keep it the way it is.

I don't think that would harm the economy too badly, after all when I play my lowest lvl pc Damon, most all of his ready cash gets spent on heal kits, and new equipment.  So it would be nice if he knows he can get rid of it, and pick himself up a quick 10 stack of bandages, and not hoard it all until a reset means he can get rid of it.

[cbnicholson]

I think we're advocating two different things now, Jrizz.

I'm talking about limiting the pawn shops in the start areas to low level characters and you are talking about eliminating gem stacks as pawn able items. :p  Both may be good ideas, both may be bad ones..Its entirely up to the team to decide.

We don't log pawn shops, but if the community wants a "campaign of shame" we certainly could. I'm not particularly keen on the idea, but if we must, we must.

I'm not either, something of this nature would simply promote individual bad feelings imo whereas a policy change would apply to all.  We'd either like it or lump it. O.o

[jrizz]

the only real issue I have with your proposal is that two of the pawn shops you are targeting are the ones that pay the highest amout per item. Furthermore there are at least 10 pawn shops that PCs can get to without any danger. So I am failing to see the issue

[Hellblazer]

simply put, that there has been time where I went through almost all the known (even the back watered one) pawnshop to find them drained. So imagine the starting players, who needs the money.

[Masterjack]

We don't log pawn shops, but if the community wants a "campaign of shame" we certainly could.  I'm not particularly keen on the idea, but if we must, we must.

Actually this may not be a bad thing if done in private. I do not think it is a good idea to make in public. If people know that they are being watched and will get a nasty e-mail form the team about questionable pawn shop uses. They just may be smart about how they use the pawn shops.

Now that I think of it the pawn shop limit per character would be less taxing on the team over all. The last thing the team needs is more work.

One thing I have to say is now that this discussion has taken place again the pawn shop have money for longer periods of time. The Hempstead Pawn shop ran out of money yesterday, which is good. I remember when it would be only a few hours after a server reset before it ran out.

[Skywatcher]

At the risk of getting blasted, I will offer some empirical evidence to suggest that this is really not as big a problem as some may think and definitely not worth the team spending time on.
 
 I thought the recent sever up time made it a good time to test my hypothesis that people are just not looking hard enough if pawning is really an issue.  Since the server had been up for ten days straight without a reset I thought surely every pawn shop must be sold out by now and I needed to run around and refamiliarize myself with getting around from place to place anyway.  Within a 1 hour period these were my findings.
 
 The pawn shops in Hempstead, Vehl, and Prantz were sold out.
 
 There were 2 large, 1 medium and 5 small pawn shops with money to spare to buy things up to the max item value of each size shop.  All of these pawn shops were accessible without doing any fighting and I only looked at places in Mistone or within a portal or ship distance from Mistone.  All of these pawn shops that still had money were accessible by characters of any level.
 
 I hope that helps to determine whether or not any time is spent on this issue.
 
 Get out there people!  Explore and don't just wait for others to provide every convenience.
 
 Thanks and good hunting.

[Lynn1020]

Yes what you are saying does make sense. But this does not help the new players that start out.

It could all be solved if people would just stop pawning all of the crafting CNR and then the team wouldn't be bother with it.  I rarely use the pawn shops so I had forgot about this until I brought Randi back and her bank account was at $0 and I was trying to get coin for her to buy healing potions and bandages.  Some of the pawn shops were empty with in an hour of a reset. That is just extreme.  At times even the lowest paying pawnshops were empty.

Why should a few drain them and ruin it for others when there may be a possible solution that would make it fair for everyone?

[Hellblazer]

Actually Skywatcher, I'm happy that -this- time that hasn`t happened. But only 2 months and some dust ago, when I created Tyillaan, I had exactly the same problem, as i described when I created the thread a year ago. The problem of going to -every- pawnshop I knew about, even the one of kitharen, hlint, vale, north point, north fort, etc, and found them all empty. So this is still a problem.
 
 Some of the pawnshop I went through had me go to loops of dangerous areas, good thing she has invisibility.
 
 But for New characters that have not the same luck, it is a problem that can affect their enjoyment of the game.

[jrizz]

@skywatcher, thank you that hits to my point. If any adjustment should be made it should be to scatter the high paying pawn shops to further away points.

[Drizzlin]

Keeping items in the inventory of pawns will produce lag.  Few of you were around to remember the player merchant NPCs...a place where people could dump items to sell on consignment, even if they weren't around, to other characters.  As cool as the system was, it created a significant amount of lag.

Another option would be simply to reduce the chance of creatures dropping an item, thereby reducing the chance of getting loot that people would find need to pawn.

I had a mac-daddy merchant!!! With cotton, barley, some greenstones, some skeleton knuckles...lol Yeah those were some laggy laggy times, but a cool system =)

[Drizzlin]

Especially since...
 
 ...the party level restrictions have been removed and low level charatcers are making runs for high level CNR.
 
 ...multiple PCs from the same player using the guild for credit that another one of their PCs is a member of.
 
 ...store credit.
 
 ..."gifts".
 
 Just to name a few. The economy system is basically turning up-side-down.

Turning? IMO it has always been upside down, since I started here back in 2003. I just don't feel it is as big of an issue as some make it out to be. Gold is easy to get in layo, even for the new players. The new quests can make you 15k to 20k before you ever reach level 10.

Yes the pawn shop thing can be frustrating when you go to one and there is no gold, however like many have stated, just dump the stuff in the trash can if you don't want to hold on to it. This will also help with lag. Get a house or rent a room and use a chest. Chests do not cause lag until opened. Personally I vote to just get rid of the pawnshops all together. Times are tough, the economy is in the tanker, who can afford to buy your junk anyway!!! =)

I would rather have a salvage dealer, who takes my goods and gives me back some CNR junk instead of gold!

[Hellblazer]

You think with the new servers and stronger pcu of today's systems, that system could be tried out again, at a certain degree? With a limit of item one merchant could carry im thinking.

[Drizzlin]

Not IMO. We can't handle 40 people logged in with full inventories. I doubt we would be able to handle 400 NPC Merchants with just as much stuff on them as our PCs!

[Hellblazer]

who said we needed 400?

That's what I meant by "at a certain degree"

Let's say you have one per major city?

[Gulnyr]

You think with the new servers and stronger pcu of today's systems, that system could be tried out again, at a certain degree? With a limit of item one merchant could carry im thinking.

who said we needed 400?

That's what I meant by "at a certain degree"

Let's say you have one per major city?

You're talking about the system of NPC merchants who sell things for PCs, right?  The way it worked before was that each character had his own merchant, so if it were reintroduced there would be a merchant for just about every character.  And, unlike oxen and horses, they stay put whether the character is logged in or not.  That's the point; the merchant is there to sell stuff in lieu of the character even when the player is unavailable.  

If it were limited to one per city, how would we choose who gets to place his merchant and in which city?  If it is set for a small limit per city, how do we determine who gets the juicy, high-traffic locations?