The World of Layonara  Forums

Author Topic: Put the Soul Mother to Rest? Maybe? Perhaps?  (Read 3159 times)

Acacea

Re: Put the Soul Mother to Rest? Maybe? Perhaps?
« Reply #20 on: June 06, 2007, 03:13:34 pm »
Well, I don't think the daughter thing is going to happen...like ever. Regardless of what version it is. Just for the lore reasons that is, but then there is also the fact that levels != age and all that...can have an old guy as a level one character.

The basic premise seems to be the reattachment of strands at the cost of XP though, which is something that they wanted to do anyway...and I imagine it would come with a cost, too. So... I don't think the story would fly, but the need that the story was made for is something that is acknowledged for sure, just that didn't make it in for this version... but judging by their comments I would think any future versions would have something to handle strand reattachment at a cost, whatever it might be.
 

Varka

Re: Put the Soul Mother to Rest? Maybe? Perhaps?
« Reply #21 on: June 06, 2007, 04:02:52 pm »
All ideas are welcome twidget.

I would not hope Soul Mother would go on vacation again.
 

Drizzlin

Re: Put the Soul Mother to Rest? Maybe? Perhaps?
« Reply #22 on: June 06, 2007, 06:34:45 pm »
Just as I wished during the first release of v3, i wish the soul mother could be put on hold for the first few weeks of the next v3 release. When the first v3 release came out I stopped playing, due to the bugs and issues that came with the release, when all I really wanted to be doing, was exploring.

I don't think giving us a week or two to beta test the new release is going to cause this reckless abandonment that will ruin the server and the RP aspect of it. In those two weeks, the xps earned would hardly touch the tip of the iceberg compared the the xps earned during that double xp weekend.

This is the kind of move that is a good thing for the community and in the end will help both the staff and players. It will allow us to test for bugs and explore with the new changes. It will also put at least a two week break for Dorg, dealing with DTs, on the dispute forums.
 

jrizz

Re: Put the Soul Mother to Rest? Maybe? Perhaps?
« Reply #23 on: June 06, 2007, 06:50:55 pm »
now why not do this? That is a stand up idea!
 

jrizz

Re: Put the Soul Mother to Rest? Maybe? Perhaps?
« Reply #24 on: June 06, 2007, 06:51:43 pm »
Quote from: Varka
All ideas are welcome twidget.

I would not hope Soul Mother would go on vacation again.


Why not?
 

Laldiien

Re: Put the Soul Mother to Rest? Maybe? Perhaps?
« Reply #25 on: June 06, 2007, 08:52:43 pm »
Quote from: jrizz
Why not?

Death should always, *ALWAYS* carry risk.  Always.  If it carries no risk, it becomes a first person shooter with no pause button.

Suspending the loss of soul rolls after a major release isn't a bad idea.  Losing the threat of permanent death is.

The last thread I lost, I lost out of stupidity.  I bit off more than I could chew and paid for it.  I won't be doing that again.  The one I lost just prior was because I engaged in bad tactics.  I learned a valuable lesson.  

If all I had lost was a few minutes play time, why wouldn't I want to run through The Deep just to see how far I could get?
 

Drizzlin

Re: Put the Soul Mother to Rest? Maybe? Perhaps?
« Reply #26 on: June 06, 2007, 10:41:52 pm »
Quote from: Laldiien
Death should always, *ALWAYS* carry risk.  Always.  If it carries no risk, it becomes a first person shooter with no pause button.

Suspending the loss of soul rolls after a major release isn't a bad idea.  Losing the threat of permanent death is.

The last thread I lost, I lost out of stupidity.  I bit off more than I could chew and paid for it.  I won't be doing that again.  The one I lost just prior was because I engaged in bad tactics.  I learned a valuable lesson.  

If all I had lost was a few minutes play time, why wouldn't I want to run through The Deep just to see how far I could get?



You are assuming the deep is still there and you can find it!!! Just like what was done with v3  on the first release, loot can be suspended, and even CNR removed. Just give us time to work out the bugs and learn the new layout.
 

twidget658

Re: Put the Soul Mother to Rest? Maybe? Perhaps?
« Reply #27 on: June 06, 2007, 11:45:06 pm »
Quote from: Laldiien
The last thread I lost, I lost out of stupidity. I bit off more than I could chew and paid for it. I won't be doing that again. The one I lost just prior was because I engaged in bad tactics. I learned a valuable lesson.
 
 Those sound like legitimate deaths and loss of SS'. Try losing a SS due to lag, a bug, a crash, etc. It is a little harder to swallow and there is NO lesson learned by the charcter. They are OOC things that affect the character. The character lost a SS and he/she really does not know why.
 

jrizz

Re: Put the Soul Mother to Rest? Maybe? Perhaps?
« Reply #28 on: June 07, 2007, 12:28:18 am »
My main has lost six three were due to technical issues (lag and crashes. No GM or WL around so that is that). If you increase the chances for techincal issues.... well guess what.
 

Varka

Re: Put the Soul Mother to Rest? Maybe? Perhaps?
« Reply #29 on: June 07, 2007, 01:14:45 am »
to Jrizz: I will get to you later if needed, but Laldieen gives a good idea why.

Further, isnt it the risk that makes every more interesting? The thing that an area is unknown and you as a player have to explore it? Does that not give you a thrill?
How do you think I and others found out - how things work on east? ;)

Well SS by, lag, bugs, crash etc.; thats why we have some rules for that. I am just thankful for that we have this oppotunity. Imagine if that service was not here at all.

Gotta got, work is calling
 

Lynn1020

Re: Put the Soul Mother to Rest? Maybe? Perhaps?
« Reply #30 on: June 07, 2007, 01:53:02 am »
Quote from: Varka
to Jrizz: I will get to you later if needed, but Laldieen gives a good idea why.

Further, isnt it the risk that makes every more interesting? The thing that an area is unknown and you as a player have to explore it? Does that not give you a thrill?
How do you think I and others found out - how things work on east? ;)

Well SS by, lag, bugs, crash etc.; thats why we have some rules for that. I am just thankful for that we have this oppotunity. Imagine if that service was not here at all.

Gotta got, work is calling

But it is very frustrating for someone to have around 40 deaths and 7 of them you lost a SS.  I love my main pc but hate playing her because it seems every time she dies she loses another one.  So now I hardly play her at all.  :(
 

Blackguy

Re: Put the Soul Mother to Rest? Maybe? Perhaps?
« Reply #31 on: June 07, 2007, 02:55:17 am »
Well, I can honestly say that would there be somekinda payment for a the new Layonara, and there would be permdeaths involded, then I would not play it.
 
 I dont enjoy loosing characters I have spent a long time working on. The penalty for acting stupid and reckelss could be solved in so many other ways than actually removing your character to play with. And if I payed for a product I would expect to have fun, and not worry about me loosing somethnig Ive played.
 
 I dont really see why people say that it brings joy and good RP, by taking a persons character away. But I do agree that death should have somekinda penalty, just not one where you would loose your character.
 
 I know that im quite alone with these opinions, and there is no plan to ever remove the mother from the current version of Layo, so I live with it, and play cautiously. I just wish that the fun would be put back into the game without worrying about that the game had to simulate a reallife enviroment, which it doesnt anyway.
 

Laldiien

Re: Put the Soul Mother to Rest? Maybe? Perhaps?
« Reply #32 on: June 07, 2007, 08:25:08 am »
Quote from: twidget658
Those sound like legitimate deaths and loss of SS'. Try losing a SS due to lag, a bug, a crash, etc. It is a little harder to swallow and there is NO lesson learned by the charcter. They are OOC things that affect the character. The character lost a SS and he/she really does not know why.

Lag is an OOC mechanic.  If a player notices the server is laggy and decided to go out adventuring anyway, well, gosh.  

From THIS post.
Quote from: Dorganath
What about excessive lag in general?  Lag makes things more dangerous, I think we can all agree on this. When the server is generally laggy, going out and adventuring can be a truly perilous experience. If the lag is this bad, then the players are taking the welfare of their characters into their own hands. If the lag is that bad on a consistent basis, there's no recourse for losses due to lag. Now, if the lag is sudden and severe (and this is something in excess of what is experienced when another character logs on. I'm talking about major spikes or persistent lag that comes on suddenly and stays. The policy for such cases is already spelled out and I think fairly clear, yet nearly every request for a Soul Strand return that has claimed lag has failed to be accompanied by a timely request to reboot the server on the forums where we can track it. Also, in such cases, a GM does not need to directly witness the death but can be on the server and attest to the lag. Assuming all other criteria are met, this avenue gives a chance of reimbursement.

Quote from: Blackguy
Well, I can honestly say that would there be somekinda payment for a the new Layonara, and there would be permdeaths involded, then I would not play it.

For me, I would.  It would encourage tactics and intelligent gameplay, rather than the zerg rush found in so many of todays games.  "Look boys!  An ancient Red Dragon!  Bind here so you can loot your corpse and get back in to the fray!"  *blinks*  Now, I have done **exactly** that.  I played EQ.  We would bind outside the encounter area, go in and I would nuke until I drew agro.  Being a mana-burner, it wasn't  long.  I'd loot a few things off my corpse, move away, and start chain casting.  Was it fun?  Surely was.  Some of my best times were the naked corpse run.  Would I have done that if I had known I was risking something I had worked two years to build?  Would I have risked my 255 Baking, mastery of every language, the people that sent me /tells when Lald the Bald logged in?  Not a chance.  I would have studied the monster, learned it's weakness.  Crafted a battle plan that didn't include the phrase "NUKERS....NOW!"
 
Quote from: Blackguy
I dont enjoy loosing characters I have spent a long time working on. The penalty for acting stupid and reckelss could be solved in so many other ways than actually removing your character to play with. And if I payed for a product I would expect to have fun, and not worry about me loosing somethnig Ive played.

I hate loosing characters.  I also hate the magic "I win" button.  If there is no risk, then every victory is hollow.  If you know the outcome of every battle, why fight it?  EQ/WoW/DAoC/ you know you will never die.  You can a risk something that IC would be insane and foolish.

Say you are a good RP'er.  You roleplay your character, you know that character.  When you are logged in you think as that character.  You get confused for a moment if someone wiggles your shoulder and asks if you want a pizza...With me?  Ok.  Your party is walking a path.  You round a bend, you see a 10ft hulking beast, swinging a club and bellowing with rage.  You look at your party and having seen this beast (you con'ed/inspected, whatever) you know it's going to be difficult for just you, but you have a group.  You decide to attack.  You win, but your victory is sour: one of your party lay dead.  Your tactics were not optimal.  

In that encounter, there should be risk.  Every time a character engages in a battle, the character should be thinking "This time may be my last.  This time, the Soul Mother may claim me.  I will win not because I am stronger, faster or swing a pointy stick, I will win because I am smarter."  

No risk = no tactics.  
No tactics = Stupid behavior.  
Stupid behavior = bad roleplay.
 
Ergo,
Risk = good roleplay
 

Drizzlin

Re: Put the Soul Mother to Rest? Maybe? Perhaps?
« Reply #33 on: June 07, 2007, 08:33:31 am »
Quote from: Varka
to Jrizz: I will get to you later if needed, but Laldieen gives a good idea why.

Further, isnt it the risk that makes every more interesting? The thing that an area is unknown and you as a player have to explore it? Does that not give you a thrill?
How do you think I and others found out - how things work on east? ;)

Well SS by, lag, bugs, crash etc.; thats why we have some rules for that. I am just thankful for that we have this oppotunity. Imagine if that service was not here at all.

Gotta got, work is calling


Yes the risk is great if I am going into a tested, and stable area.
 

Drizzlin

Re: Put the Soul Mother to Rest? Maybe? Perhaps?
« Reply #34 on: June 07, 2007, 08:36:50 am »
Quote
For me, I would. It would encourage tactics and intelligent gameplay, rather than the zerg rush found in so many of todays games. "Look boys! An ancient Red Dragon! Bind here so you can loot your corpse and get back in to the fray!" *blinks* Now, I have done **exactly** that. I played EQ. We would bind outside the encounter area, go in and I would nuke until I drew agro. Being a mana-burner, it wasn't long. I'd loot a few things off my corpse, move away, and start chain casting. Was it fun? Surely was. Some of my best times were the naked corpse run. Would I have done that if I had known I was risking something I had worked two years to build? Would I have risked my 255 Baking, mastery of every language, the people that sent me /tells when Lald the Bald logged in? Not a chance. I would have studied the monster, learned it's weakness. Crafted a battle plan that didn't include the phrase "NUKERS....NOW!"


Steep xp loss per death brings the same kind of penalty.
 

Laldiien

Re: Put the Soul Mother to Rest? Maybe? Perhaps?
« Reply #35 on: June 07, 2007, 08:44:29 am »
Quote from: Drizzlin
Steep xp loss per death brings the same kind of penalty.

Actually, that encourages grinding to replace what you lost.  Every death in EQ cost about 10% of your experience to level.  Get a cleric with a click-stick, you brought it down to 4%, which is still a nasty hit at endgame levels.  

I would still prefer the potential of permanent death.  Do I like the % chance per level?  Not really, but I like the over arching concept.

**Edit*  I realize I am coming off as a bit of a hardcase.  I genuinely hope the people that disagree with me (and there are many) don't take what I am saying as a personal attack, it is not intended as such.
 

Dorganath

Re: Put the Soul Mother to Rest? Maybe? Perhaps?
« Reply #36 on: June 07, 2007, 09:06:15 am »
Hey guys...

It was suggested above by Laldiien and it seems to have been missed by a couple of you, but the idea of relaxing the Soul Mother checks for a week or two after the major update was put forth.  This is something I strongly considered for the initial V3 release, and while there were bugs, the number of Soul Strand losses to bugs (going by those which were requested to be returned) was low and did not seem to warrant such a temporary reprieve.

I'm fairly confident this next release is being, perhaps already has been well-tested for "killer" bugs, so I would strongly suggest that we stop predicting doom and gloom for the next release and see how it goes.

Soul Strand losses due to bugs have always been returnable, even if a GM or WL did not see it at the time it happened, and that will not change.  Lag and crashes....those are things we don't have much control over and so the policy will continue to be the same for those.

There have been several other major releases over the years.  So far, none of these significant/large updates had a reprieve from the Soul Mother accompany them.  At this time, there is no indication that
this up-coming release will be so buggy and deadly as to warrant the Soul Mother being turned off.  So let's all just have some faith and see how things go. :)


In closing, I'm curious how many of you would, if we turned off Soul Mother checks for a short time (if warranted), also support turning off all loot, gold and XP for kills during that same time.
 

Interia_Discordius

Re: Put the Soul Mother to Rest? Maybe? Perhaps?
« Reply #37 on: June 07, 2007, 11:53:21 am »
Quote from: Dorganath

In closing, I'm curious how many of you would, if we turned off Soul Mother checks for a short time (if warranted), also support turning off all loot, gold and XP for kills during that same time.


If the next version isn't going to have any bugs and such, then making the Mother go poof will probably be a bit pointless to travel in the first place (well, after you finish running around like an insane person for a few all-nighters to explore the terrain). People only meet the Soul Mother by killing, bad tactics, bad judgment, or just sheer lack of luck...And most of this is during battles and traveling. As far as I know, most people battle for loot and exp, so ...

No Soul Mother + No exp/gold = No traveling to begin with meaning...No need for lack of Soul Mother?

I hate when I just wake up. I should really avoid posting. So long-winded.
 

osxmallard

Re: Put the Soul Mother to Rest? Maybe? Perhaps?
« Reply #38 on: June 07, 2007, 12:01:02 pm »
Quote from: Leanthar
17) We are going to be working on the Soul Strand system to allow for a re-attaching of cut Strands through some method. We have it designed already but need to get some time to work on the system. However, permanent death when all Strands have been cut will remain in place. This is another one of those systems that will take some time to get implemented and it is not a priority during the transition.


I recommend making the penalty different on death.  The risk of death could carry a gigantic XP loss... i.e. all xp to the previous level at the same % chance as losing a strand.  Keep the 2nd/3rd death penalties as they are currently.  That way, you aren't permanently losing a character.  Also remove the dispute system on SS/XP loss entirely.

Quote from: Laldiien
Actually, that encourages grinding to replace what you lost.  Every death in EQ cost about 10% of your experience to level.  Get a cleric with a click-stick, you brought it down to 4%, which is still a nasty hit at endgame levels.


I don't agree with your assessment as it is not a fair comparison between two completely different games.  In EQ (or WoW), your character is only a tool.  There were not hundreds or thousands of hours in their development or personality.  There aren't any on line journals speaking about their exploits and there certainly isn't a community like Layo.  If I lost a 64th level in EQ, I'd have a new 64th level in a month or so.
 

Interia_Discordius

Re: Put the Soul Mother to Rest? Maybe? Perhaps?
« Reply #39 on: June 07, 2007, 12:02:51 pm »
Every death shouldn't have a huge exp loss, in my opinion. What about the same style rolling and if you fail the roll, you lose X amount of EXP?