Put the Soul Mother to Rest? Maybe? Perhaps?

[Dorganath]

@jrizz: Yes, but to say that the CDQ and WLDQ process is currently shut down is inaccurate. At this time, we're still accepting requests for both.

[Lynn1020]

If chars are going to go away soon anyway, why remove a system, because it going to go away soon?

If your going to lose your char anyway fear of death should not really be much of a blow, if you lose it now and are gloom about it, well you can get over it before you lose it when the NWN version is dropped, along with  which ever other one you have at the same time.

keep in mind no matter what your probly going to lose the char, so why not enjoy it? live the last bits of moments on it, enjoy the exciment of facing death and chancing it? Least you can RP them dieing in some fun grand way, on a big DM quest, rather then *poof* server wipe!

Because if I understood correctly ...... there will be a way we can start our characters over on the new server.  But you wouldn't be able to do that if they perm.

[Chongo]

If chars are going to go away soon anyway, why remove a system, because it going to go away soon?
 
 If your going to lose your char anyway fear of death should not really be much of a blow, if you lose it now and are gloom about it, well you can get over it before you lose it when the NWN version is dropped, along with which ever other one you have at the same time.
 
 keep in mind no matter what your probly going to lose the char, so why not enjoy it? live the last bits of moments on it, enjoy the exciment of facing death and chancing it? Least you can RP them dieing in some fun grand way, on a big DM quest, rather then *poof* server wipe!

 
 Actually, we're talking about another year.  And I for one would prefer to see people continue with Layonara instead of perm'ing their character in one month, and then leaving because they don't want to invest in a new character for the following months.
 
 I am *unable* to find a group right now at my level bracket because everyone seems to have 14 DTs.  It's discouraging, and I feel the focus should be on player retention right now.
 
 But hey, sitting around on west all week, and taking low levels to areas 15 levels under my CR has been pretty fun.  Aside from the fact that they're getting massively unbalanced amounts of experience, it's not a bad thing at all.

[jan]

Actually, we're talking about another year.  And I for one would prefer to see people continue with Layonara instead of perm'ing their character in one month, and then leaving because they don't want to invest in a new character for the following months.
 
 I am *unable* to find a group right now at my level bracket because everyone seems to have 14 DTs.  It's discouraging, and I feel the focus should be on player retention right now.
 
 But hey, sitting around on west all week, and taking low levels to areas 15 levels under my CR has been pretty fun.  Aside from the fact that they're getting massively unbalanced amounts of experience, it's not a bad thing at all.

Yeah ..taking people way under yout lvl along can be fun

Unfortunately ..if your caught by those off the team that find it undesirable that you show new players( that are -way- below your lvl) around , you get talked too and made feel like a criminal.

I stopped leading people around for this reason , and i can name another few that have done the same.

Where does the rp stop and the power gaming begins?
I don't know and frankly i don't care.

As-long as it is me and another player rping and having fun , i'll take the warnings for what i see them to be....power-trips of those that ( seemingly ) cant bring themselves to rp with -very- low-level chars.

Jan

//typed this after a visite to a very nice pub , so if it seems too harsh ..sorry.

[Dezza]

I say bring her on! If she thinks she is going to lose us in the distant future she would get stuck into getting as many souls as she can.

DOUBLE THE CHANCES OF GETTING A TOKEN! GO ON! I DARE YOU!

Challenge! Challenge! Challenge!

[hawklen]

Yeah ..taking people way under yout lvl along can be fun

Unfortunately ..if your caught by those off the team that find it undesirable that you show new players( that are -way- below your lvl) around , you get talked too and made feel like a criminal.

I stopped leading people around for this reason , and i can name another few that have done the same.

Where does the rp stop and the power gaming begins?
I don't know and frankly i don't care.

As-long as it is me and another player rping and having fun , i'll take the warnings for what i see them to be....power-trips of those that ( seemingly ) cant bring themselves to rp with -very- low-level chars.

Jan

//typed this after a visite to a very nice pub , so if it seems too harsh ..sorry.

Not harsh. Happened to me a few times, leading around having fun RP, then yelled at and told should know better.

So i dont lead anyone on west anymore.

[Interia_Discordius]

No... No doubling.

[twidget658]

I say bring her on! If she thinks she is going to lose us in the distant future she would get stuck into getting as many souls as she can.
 
 DOUBLE THE CHANCES OF GETTING A TOKEN! GO ON! I DARE YOU!
 
 Challenge! Challenge! Challenge!

 
 
 *nods* Yep, that should get rid of the rest of the players.

[aragwen]

Not harsh. Happened to me a few times, leading around having fun RP, then yelled at and told should know better.
 
 So i dont lead anyone on west anymore.

 
 Come on guys that is unfair comment.
 
 Nobody would yell at you when you show someone around on West in areas that they are able to travel to with a party of equal level. As long as that player contributes to the party.
 
 But taking a player to a place where he should not be or could not survive in a party of equal level is just wrong.
 
 Let me use an extreme example:
 - helping a level 6 character get the kobold stick, in other words he faces the fighting and actually kills one or two himself and you dont just run in and kill all for him to loot. Not a problem in my opinion.
 - however taking that same level 6 character to Haven and clearing all the spawns all the way to the bottom so he can complete the quest or mine some CNR, while he cant even hit one of the enemies. Big problem.
 
 So in no way is said dont help or dont join lower levels parties, but rather use common sense when it comes to where you take them and with what you help them.

[hawklen]

Im talking about just running around anywhere for fun. Not getting any quests, just having a good RP, and yes, just running around. Showing, not looking for any CNR or quest, got in trouble.

[aragwen]

Im talking about just running around anywhere for fun. Not getting any quests, just having a good RP, and yes, just running around. Showing, not looking for any CNR or quest, got in trouble.

 
 Hawklen.....nobody will get in trouble if the characters are supposed to be in that place (refer to server restrictions) and they not actively engaging in battles which the lower level character is not suppose to face or completing quests including point of interest flags.

[LynnJuniper]

Alrigt Aragwen.....I was with you right up to the point of interest flags. As a guide for Stormcrest I thought my goal was to show people around while enriching their lore...Which meant taking them to points rich in lore...which, sometimes, inevitably, have a point of interest flag. I mean, where's the RP in clicking a little flag that tells you "This place is important" Without really knowing why...?

I'm working on something to fix that , but I don't really see eye to eye with you on that part....

[aragwen]

Lynn, sorry that perhaps came out wrong.
 
 I meant interest flags that can only be reached by fighting.
 And I personally dont think interest flags should be found and explained by using invisibility.

[Acacea]

Hawk and Barion, part of the problem though is that some cases really earn the scrutiny, and no one ever thinks they did anything wrong - when someone who DID do something wrong sees someone else doing something they feel is no different (take a case where someone leads around the group doing nothing but killing for several hours, guiding the group out of their level range acquiring nothing but massive XP with nary a word... and a high level character guiding a group around, roleplaying, avoiding some encounters and running into others just for fun, telling stories etc) - and reports them.

What does that have to do with it? Well, like I said, no one ever feels they do anything wrong, true or not. What is almost always the case is that when someone feels wronged, they feel the need to make sure everyone is wronged equally...that might not be how its worded in their heads but something like "I got a three day ban for this and this guy is doing the same thing, he should get punished too!" When something is reported, it has to be looked into, whoever it is and for whatever reason.

Combined with DM changeouts where new ones are brought in and are breaking in the boots and unsure of when lines are hard and when they're blurry and try to err on the side of the rules, it seems inevitable that everyone in that situation is going to be talked to to make sure everything is understood, deserved or no. Then they will feel wronged and make sure to point out the next person, etc etc, upping the paranoia factor a few more notches instead of having a 'chill' environment. Like getting reminded of language rules on the forums for something strong or minor but either way being said on the 'clean forums,' then seeing someone else (DM or player) saying a word in-game that your 6 year old probably has in vocabulary, objecting, and trying to ensure they get in trouble for the double standard. Just makes things worse instead of better.

aragwen, to say no one would ever get yelled at if they weren't doing something wrong is in the ideal situation, but it is the 'wrong' that is subjective in the first place. I'm sure there have been 'rulings' that were undeserved, and some that were, and some that deserved it that didn't get it - just the way things are. Your opinion of what qualifies as 'wrong' differs from mine; so long as it's not a regular thing and roleplay is had, training and storytelling all the way to the bottom of the mines, who cares?

Likewise, what's wrong with taking someone to points of interest IF the roleplay is there? What is a point of interest except a place you can explore/guide to and tell the history of to people whose characters have heard the names but not the stories, and actually have them get XP for the journey and roleplay? I have a hard time believing it's better for the spirit of the server and roleplay to have low level characters invising about and collecting the exploring XP with no clue what it's about. Which is what many are perfectly capable of doing on their own. Or magically getting some invisible voice spewing out lore to you like an encyclopedia without so much as a roll or chat with anyone else. Or worse, having some girl scouts badge assigner sending you to all kinds of crazy places as if people really go to the Rift to construct monuments.

There's a reason high level and low level characters are allowed to group without difficulty... they're supposed to interact more, or at least they used to. I wouldn't trade the couple of trips my character was taken on when she was below level ten. She didn't get massive amounts of unfair XP from them, but she did get to roleplay with some high level people she wouldn't have been allowed to interact with outside of Hlint by your definition of 'wrong.' Are we going to report all of the stormcrest guides for...guiding? It's an approved organization, it has an encouraged purpose that in many ways falls under what you put under a blanket 'wrong' label.

In the end though I'm not sure arguing about here it is really relevant to the current topic (said gently, I have whole essays of off topic posts...subject...what subject? Like this one!) or actually productive - it seems to only further the mentality of "out to get us" that furthers the rift that causes the misunderstandings in the first place, if they were indeed misunderstandings...I wouldn't know. "I never did anything wrong!" "We've never been mistaken!" "I'm perfect!" "We have perfect judgement with no exceptions!" Pfft. Impossible on both counts.

Anyway, need a new thread if that's the subject of today! Soul Mother... player retention good, fear of death also good, hard to resolve opinions on that, etc!

[Dorganath]

Yeah, let's keep this a bit more on track.  

To put it to rest thought... High levels and low levels together aren't the problem.  The problem comes when high-level characters will "drag" lower ones along or allow them to draft along invisibly or safely out of range.  What it boils down to is methods.

Perhaps that sounds a bit subjective, but as has been mentioned, there are both kinds of cases....cases where the higher-level character acts as a guide, and cases where the character acts as a source of XP.  One is good, the other is not.  We trust in your common sense to tell the difference.

Now, I don't think we need to get into any more examples of what may or may not have happened. It'll turn into a he said/she said kind of deal, and that's not terribly productive.  As Acacea has said, perhaps some warnings were missed, while others were given when they shouldn't have been.  

Let's let it go and steer back on topic.

[Stockholm]

I think that Chongo are making good points here. Its sad to see characters that have fought the soulmother once and finally got to epic and got their 5 extra soulstrands and then a few lvls later finding themselves in the same position with 14 lost strands. :\\

The current SMD feat gives you 5 more soulstrands.. How about implement SMD II as a feat that gives an additional 3 extra soulstrands. :rolleyes:

[AeonBlues]

I worked very hard to develop my character to level 20 with 8 SS left.  It would kind of discredit all the times I turned down opportunities to go some place too difficult, and all the hours I spent gathering and crafting potions.

AeonBlues

[twidget658]

I worked very hard to develop my character to level 20 with 8 SS left. It would kind of discredit all the times I turned down opportunities to go some place too difficult, and all the hours I spent gathering and crafting potions.
 
 AeonBlues

 
 
 Huh? How many times have you died? How do you control the dice roll? If you are fortunate enough to get a consistant party (same people) together, then yes, dying is a lot less often. But how in the heck does that affect your character's development getting to 20 in about five months with only losing 2 SS?
 
 My main character has died over 180 times and has lost 10 SS (over 26 months of existance and played nearly everyday). Do I get good credit for being a good die-er? *scratches head on that one* But I know people that have perm'ed or have lost 8-9 SS with less that 30 deaths.
 
 When you are running a 'safe route' and you get jumped at a transition or you are fighting and the main fighter crashes and everyone dies or when the rolls are just against you or how about when you lose 3 SS in a row, these are all things I have seen and/or experienced in the time I have been here. You have no control over these things.

[Praylor Falcus]

Pay to play = NO PERMA DEATH,  Anyone stupid enough to try anything differant will spend a lot of time in court. If their lucky, the alternitive is a far more realistic understanding of the soul mudder, with only one strand!!!

[Varka]

Well to drag the balance into the other direction. I would like to see something similar to the old system in place again.

Losing a lot of xp when you die. Have it minimized by raid dead, resurrection etc.
Removing the Soul Mother Feat in the new coming Layo and back to 10 SS maximum.

Why is that?
It will make you appreciate your character more
Without perm death soul mother will be sad an lonely
Death should be part of the game - death is normal
Seems players are afraid of losing there character and tries by majority vote to pull it in the direction role-playing of Tele toppies.

I hate seeing the basic/core/principles/main values of a game being changed just because people have played WOW, Rappelz or what ever game they were immortal in.  

That was my 2 cents, cheers people