Author Topic: Soulstrands, a suggestion. (Read 465 times)

Witch Hunter · « **on:** March 16, 2007, 09:54:57 pm »

Alright - half of you will say im whining for certain but this is seriously absurd...

I'm suggesting the following: make it so you can't lose two soulstrands in a row... I just lost my 4th in a row or so and It's terrible - it passes the boundries of a game and ventures the depressing zone for the player in levels beyond imagination - considering one puts so much effort into a character.

Don't get me wrong, its a system which should be there and has its reasons... but when you gain so many strands in a row you simply feel like giving up, it passes the boundries of fun.

I may be whining but as it is I'm considering dropping my character for good because he simply isn't worth playing any more, every death is a strand and he's only level 10.

Dorganath · « **Reply #1 on:** March 16, 2007, 10:30:54 pm »

While I fully understand your allergy to losing Soul Strands, you're not being entirely honest in your argument. The database where we log everything shows a different picture of your Soul Strand loss, and it certainly is not "4 in a row".

The rolls vs. Soul Mother use the same system for everyone (A d100 roll against the level of your character as the DC), whether they lost a strand last time or not. In your case, not being able to get two in a row would have at most made a difference of one Soul Strand.

By way of contrast, my own character lost 3 soul strands truly in a row at level 22.

The Soul Strand system is in place to hopefully give people a respect for character death, and for helping to ensure that those who live dangerously will probably have shorter life spans. By weakening the system, that respect falls, which was seen in the extreme when the Soul Mother took a little vacation about year ago.

Witch Hunter · « **Reply #2 on:** March 16, 2007, 10:41:55 pm »

I lost 1 in a row correct, and the other two with like 2 deaths in between - still a lot compared to the 1 per 10 death ratio I should have at that level.

And again I'm not whining nor requesting any strand back, just suggesting a system that would do good to the depressing effect of losing strands in a row - the way you wrote your reply suggests im using this as an excuse to get a strand returned.

I do not live dangerously as my post might suggest and nearly every death I had other than one was with a capable group, that is not my case.

Dorganath · « **Reply #3 on:** March 16, 2007, 10:53:28 pm »

Again, I understand completely, but you can't just look at a single level and your Soul Strand-to-deaths ratio for that one level and draw any solid conclusions, because the sample is just too small. If you look at that level only, your ratio is just over 17%, which is a bit high if you compare it to the 10% "nominal" rate. But your level 10 deaths account for about 1/3 of your total deaths, and if you look at all your deaths, you're just under a 6% ratio of lost Soul Strands for your total deaths.

So really, you're not outside the realm of normal. It's just that you've had several concentrated in a relatively short time. Look at it over the long term and, they tend to even out. It's entirely possible that you can go for several levels now and not lose another Soul Strand...or the dice may be unkind to you.

And no, I was not thinking you were using it as an excuse at all. I was merely commenting that it wouldn't have made much difference in your case.

Witch Hunter · « **Reply #4 on:** March 16, 2007, 11:07:55 pm »

Well ignoring the ratio we are still lead to the fact this is a game and we are here to have fun overall... I've heard of cases worse than mind and I've heard of cases far better than mine - still, at least knowing you can't lose two strands in a row would cheer a few people up for certain.

Death has a long term effect no doubt - but when it crosses your character and hits the player it's not exactly fun, and I'm not talking about my case in praticular... Heck, I know players that left because they lost a certain amount of strands and simply didnt feel like playing anymore.

Pseudonym · « **Reply #5 on:** March 16, 2007, 11:30:12 pm »

Not to hijack this thread but ... is the saving throw vs the soul mother against the character's level or is it against 1 + the character's level ??

Dorganath · « **Reply #6 on:** March 16, 2007, 11:34:55 pm »

You have to roll 1 higher than your level to beat the DC.

So a level 10 character must roll an 11.

AeonBlues · « **Reply #7 on:** March 16, 2007, 11:35:53 pm »

I just want to say Witch, that there are a lot of things that could make players leave. Layonara is an incredible game world, but it is not suited to every game players taste.

Many of the challenges, frustrations and hardships we face are directly caused by some other players bad RP. In this case players would go to places that was way too hard for their character. Farm as much XP as possible, and then log for 10 hours after they died. Thus, the soul mother system was created.

The real lesson here is, that we should stay true to good RP, and the spirit of Layonara.

AeonBlues

Pseudonym · « **Reply #8 on:** March 16, 2007, 11:42:42 pm »

Quote from: Dorganath

You have to roll 1 higher than your level to beat the DC.

So a level 10 character must roll an 11.

You wouldn't believe what a difference that extra one would make! *sighs heavily* Thanks Dorg.

I am normally loathe to draw RL comparisons to a FANTASY game but, to me the SS system as it is in place now seems spot on in terms of balancing fun derived from adventuring versus paying proper respect to the receipt of mortal injuries.

How many times could you get stabbed in RL before ... *tries to think of a famous doctor* ... that guy from ER or Greys Anatomy eventually calls your time of death?

MJZ · « **Reply #9 on:** March 17, 2007, 12:10:34 am »

Yes, but it's still for our amusement. I fear death every time I go out to kill creatures that aren't "easy" rating. I never move out without a good-sized group, and I always take utmost care, buffing etc. Yet death is quite common, due to high enemy damage and hit rate. I've been lucky not to lose any soul strands yet, but all I can say is I hope a process to re-attach a strand (that's hopefully not overly difficult or costly) is implemented as soon as it can be.

Witch Hunter, don't despair! You've still got six left.. try joining some all RP sessions for a while for XP, make some more money, buy a bodyguard! Maybe soon you can regain a strand or two.

aragwen · « **Reply #10 on:** March 17, 2007, 04:53:06 am »

Witch Hunter, there are many players (including myself) who have bad streaks with soul strands. It is just something that happens.

I would really hate to see it changed as people get respect for death with the possibility of a loss of soul strand. Just imagine if you cant get two in a row, the moment someone dies and knows the next death is a guarenteed no loss, he will most likely have no respect till that death occurs and might even go as far as try something he would not normally have.

This was very evident during the soul mother's absence.

The funny thing is that strands seems to get lost in packets. You will go many deaths without one and then suddenly loose two or three in a row.

If it will make you feel any better here is some of my own up and downs
- 6 deaths at level 10 with 3 tokens and two were consequentive

- followed by 15 deaths with only one token for level 11-13

- then my worst luck, 5 tokens in 14 deaths for level 14-18 and two were consequentive

- since then not a single token (touch wood) in 19 deaths

So it comes and goes and evens out over time. (10 tokens for 75 deaths, but luckily two got returned, one thanks to Athus and one was a wrongful GM kill)

Best advice someone once gave me (thanks Reventage) is DONT DIE then there is no luck involved.

So that is what I strive for, best period for me is 63 days while actively playing without a death.

Stephen_Zuckerman · « **Reply #11 on:** March 17, 2007, 05:10:11 am »

159 deaths, 8 tokens. That's Pyyran's record. Works out to just over five percent... That's great luck, too. However, they do come in pockets. I've been losing strands within days of one another, when I've lost them. Dropped two in one day twice, if I remember right. Sure, it gets depressing, but that's luck.

DMOE · « **Reply #12 on:** March 17, 2007, 05:39:30 am »

If I am remembering my death count and token count correctly...

Muireann......around 50 deaths....lost 5 soul strands....

If she makes 21st...either by simply playing or going WL I will dine on Pizza in celebration!!! She's 13th level now

But...CN Cleric of Mist so I find it kinda fitting

Nibor21 · « **Reply #13 on:** March 17, 2007, 05:56:32 am »

I would be intrigued to know the average class/perma-death ratio for the different classes on the server. I realise that multi-classing makes something of a mockery of that but it would still be interesting. I suspect certain classes on average perm much later than others

Stephen_Zuckerman · « **Reply #14 on:** March 17, 2007, 06:04:16 am »

Well, in that, you'll find that the characters of combative builds who are played the longest are permed more often.

Weeblie · « **Reply #15 on:** March 17, 2007, 06:08:50 am »

When I first created my character, the soul mother was on vacantion. So... a little bit of number cruhing here:

Before 19 April 2006 (i.e. before her return):

Level: 1 - 10
Deaths: 24

Today:

Level: 10 - 17
Deaths: 31
Tokens: 2 (actually 3, but one of them got reimbursed)

This effectively means:

Level: 10 - 17
Deaths: 7
Failed Rolls: 3

Failure Rate: around 43% (29% if you exclude the reimbursed token)
Estimated Failure Rate: around 15%

I believe, if anyone should be upset over the bad rolls, it would be me!

Ironically, none of the three SS losses were due to "normal combat":

1. Pure RP soulstrand loss - Alleina refused to leave a friend who planned to take his/her own life, which resulted in the death of both.
2. Greater Sanctuary bug - Alleina cast G-Sanc and ran away, but the monsters had her "locked" anyway. Died from full HP due to this bug. (never tried to reimburse it due to lack of witness)
3. Reimbursed from unintentional event on a DM quest.

Rayenoir · « **Reply #16 on:** March 17, 2007, 08:55:13 am »

I'm sure I've said this before, but I feel that the loss of strands and eventual permanent end to a character's active presence on Layonara is necessary. There are those players out there who would just accumulate needlessly and endlessly and no longer contribute meaningfully to the community. I'm not going to mention any names, but I feel that there are some who do this already.
With the reality of actual, permanent death as an eventuality, it means that you actually have to want to make an impact before your character bites it. For a prime example of what I'm speaking of, just take a step into the Arms and have yourself a look at the Tribute to the Norseman. Now that, my friends, is an example of permanent death done right.

Witch Hunter · « **Reply #17 on:** March 17, 2007, 10:21:49 am »

Argh don't get me wrong - I'm not saying the system needs to be removed nor am I saying it's bad, I just think the lose of two strands in a row is er... depressing on a player level.

We are here to have fun are we not? sure we die in the proccess (a bit as a player too *cough*) and even lose strands, yes it is part of the game and its accepted... but when you lose so many strands in such a cluster its simply depressing - the removal of losing two in a row would lower the chance of someone going all "Blergh" when he dies

I might be wrong of course and this is a bad idea, but then again it's just a suggestion :p

EDit: these new square smileys are making me cry. O.o >:/ :rolleyes:

Nibor21 · « **Reply #18 on:** March 17, 2007, 10:32:17 am »

Actually getting DTs helps reflect life in a way. The older you get in life, the more you appreciate what you have and try not to do reckless things.

In layo its the same with DTs, when I had one DT I didn't really think about it and thought "hey nine to go! no problems *Enters barbarian rage*".

Now I am on 8 DTs I think my perhaps the slow accumulation of XP by killing individual skeletons isn't actually such a bad thing, and the giants/demons/monster of choice can be left to those with more fiery tempers and an urge to write their names across history.

Although I admit it is bad RP to play the cautious Barbarian!

Stephen_Zuckerman · « **Reply #19 on:** March 17, 2007, 10:44:05 am »

I have a lot of trouble playing the recklessness of a Barbarian. That's why I have to remind myself of it by looking at his INT of 6 every five minutes.