Spell Change Discussion

[ZeroVega]

  Lots of spell changes have been made/are being made and I thought it would be interesting to get objective and mature opinions of the players being affected about the changes.
    I've heard people say we should make eschew a higher feat, lower the duration/effect of spells (being done right now), and just today "lower the spell slots" and would like to hear what others think on this subject.
  (If this is something Orth, Ghost, L and the team don't feel like having up right now that's fine, just delete this thread, if not just go ahead and keep an eye on it and freeze it if people start flaming)
    It's my opinion that certain spell changes are good, and are greatly needed in some areas. Currently wizards need to be taken from a major soloing class down to not necessarily a support class, but more of a group helpful class. Currently a level 12 mage can cast, Tensers, Greater SS, and Mestil's Sheath and kick just about anything's butt. So I'm in favor of decreasing spell power.
    I'm not in favor of decreasing the number of spell slots as, wizards have to pick and choose carefully as it is what they want to cast, doing that would be kinda like telling a warrior he can't hold a sheild.
    Also I don't think protection spells necessarily need to be downed, however spells like Greater Stoneskin I think are too powerful as they are. Perhaps 10/+5 DR +1 Per level above 10?
    As for the Imp Invis, Time Stop, Flame Brand thing, I think Imp Invis will be better for what it is used for now, Time Stop is cooler as it should stop all time, and Flame Brand I think is really neat now. Instead of being a really really different spell, they really are like little fireballs now. ^_^ Anyone else? (Perhaps a Content dude to give us the what, why, when, and how of these spell changes)

[Pankoki]

You're pretty right on most aspects ZV, and no we will never lower the slots on a mage. Trust us, just wait and see all the changes. It balances out at the end of the day. Just wait and see.

[Talan Va'lash]

oops, sorry ZV, didnt see this before I posted in general discussion.

To quote you:

Stop posting before me! Its rude.

hehe

[FlameStrike]

Since this was brought up, i might as well add my suggestion regarding paladin spells, which they are probably being reworked, but here it goes:

 Deafening Clang - Increased duration to 2 rounds/lvl or 1 turn/2 levels, add a thunderstone as a required  spell component.

 Prayer - Increased duration for paladins to 2 rounds/lvl or 1 turn/2 levels, since their link with their gods is stronger and it already requires the holy symbol or perhaps add even another spell component. I thought of this because aside from GMW and Magic Circle vs Align, the 3rd lvl spells for paladins aren't that great.

Perhaps this is not the place for such addition to the discussion, but I have noticed that spells listed in NWN main game are some what limited.
I know that maybe the spells are hard-coded into the game, but is it possible to add alternative schools of magic, based on vocation perhaps.
Most of the spells have everything to do with 3rd edition publications, but when you look back at 2nd edition spells, there was more variety for the spellcaster, being they divine or arcane.

Also, while reading through the campaign handbook for layonara, it was stated that the NCR listing of available crafts is not complete. Any chance of adding a new craft based on the characters understanding of lore and spellcraft. I not suggesting changing or increasing the variety of epic spells, but maybe a craft that allows the spellcaster to research new spells, or augment existing spells for greater affects.

[ZeroVega]

  Well expanding CNR really isn't needed. I mean "Craftable Natural Resources..." what else is there to craft. We've got Armors, Weapons, Enchantments, Scrolls, Musical Instruments, Food, Potions, Poison, Jewelry... there's probably more that I just don't remember but what else would you want to craft.
    Also the Epic spell thing, is a good idea. Personally I'd like to see some more 8th-9th circle spells aswell, just to give you a big old range of things to choose from when you make that near Epic mark of magic. However there is maybe half dozen or so people who could actually "try" to get Epic spells and probably less that actually have the Spell Craft needed for it. That makes it a lower priority than fixing bugs and catering to my every need... 

[Talan Va'lash]

Look at this system.  I haven't tested it out but I like the concept.  Theres a good chance that its all terribly overpowered but it can be tweaked.

http://www.layonaraonline.com/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=12145&posts=2

-TV

[Ar7]

I once looked through most of the spells, there are many that are overpowered, but there are also many that can be tweaked or are simply very interesting. Like trapping your enemy in a gem, calling upon advice from abyss/heaven etc.

I really wish epic spells would be implemented, right now they are lacking at the very best.

[Frendh]

I'm wondering why so few circle 9 spells have spellcomponents.
And those I remember are easy. Easier than the components
for the old mage armor(or is it still leather strips?).

[Synpox]

Talan Va'lash - 9/10/2005  12:01 PM

Look at this system.  I haven't tested it out but I like the concept.  Theres a good chance that its all terribly overpowered but it can be tweaked.

http://www.layonaraonline.com/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=12145&posts=2

-TV

Ive played around with this system before. Some of the spells are insane.. like Unseen Walker. You can just *poof* up and turn invisible whenever and where ever you want as many times as you want. Some others are really neat though. Like Nailed to the Sky.  Loved that one.
The cost to learn these spells, even in Layo standards are also...insane. Hundreds of thousands of XP and millions of gold. Per spell. And you get one shot at a really high DC to learn em I think. That might be enough to balance the power. Dunno.

But it is a really cool system.

As for spells being tweaked, lessened, improved. I'm all for it. I like the challenge of finding new ways of doing things. Just like last time they were changed around.

-Pox

Edit: Just looked at the dates on this thread... seems I'm a day late and a dollar short.

[Talan Va'lash]

Yeah I posted that forever ago, not sure if it was really seen by many people.

I liked the research/expenditure aspect of gaining the spells in the system.  Much more fun than just picking spells on level up.

-TV

I think you are on to something here. It would be nice to have that particular aspect in the game for spells, rather than just getting them handed to your character upon leveling up.
Remembering the standard practice among DMs, myself included, for tabletop, is that spells of 1st to 3rd were standard availability. Mind you, you would have to convince your mentor to give them to you, and then again, to get the spell required a chore to be done first. As a spellcaster progressed through the levels, each spell level became harder to access, and many of the spells needed to be found while adventuring or the one aspect I liked, is the augmentation or manipulation of existing spells, from 1st to 3rd already within your spellbook.
It was one aspect of spellcraft that was really useful, and gave the wizards a chance to create more personal spells.
Example: Magic Missile, which is like tiny bolts. At third, Shatter Missiles, which would double the number of magic missiles. Go even further, as to have one at 7th level, Wave of Missiles, which would make all the missiles do d6+1 dmg per missile, instead of d4+1 dmg.
Anyways you get the idea.

Too bad quite a few years ago they never did complete the game AlKhemi. It was a wizards game, where you collected various spell components and created various spells. Though it never really got off the ground, because it required a very large database and always needed to upgraded to include better options.