Time based allocation of Graceful pleas.

[Hellblazer]

I'll start by putting things in perspective and then I'll write about the idea.

First, this is specifically aimed toward the SS and permadeath system, but could be used for regular use also.

In my eyes although the idea of a permadeath system truly makes sense in a role playing server, I have to say that in "today's" gaming world, where all the games I know of out there, even online games, do not have that type of system it will be a show stopper for many new, unused to P&P style of gaming players that you will try to recruit.

Over the years I've been here, (not as many as some true but still, I often end up reviving old threads.. due to reading them :p)  it is something that has always came back as a major thing. And as you try to recruit new players to invest hundred of hours into character and they know that at one point they will lose the character mechanically, then it will putt off a lot of possible great role players. To which, how many good role players and friends have we lost on this server because of this? Too many. Heck when Brian lost his last strand so close to level 21, it even went through my head.

So without going over the debate again of why we the players who live with this daily vs the team and the idea behind it and the role play worldly reasons, I'd like to propose the idea that I will, but first. The person that thought about the graceful plea system should receive a statue somewhere in game and I'd like to suggest an amendment to it that may help with the permadeath system.

The idea is pretty simple, and maybe could be somewhat automated in Lore, since I think that the CA's and GM have a way to check LORE about the number of GP someone has(?).

For every year a player has been playing, 3 GP could be added to their totals, to either use for ss returns or the other reasons that it is used. This way players that invests a lot of time in their character and have stayed tune to the server and played on it, they would have the possibility to push off the unavoidable.

[Guardian 452]

Would "time off" be considered? Example... Ive played for 9 moths... took 6 months off then played for 3 months, then took 4 months off then played another 2. Do I earn 6 GP's? If no is the answer who will be monitoring the persons playtime to determine if they are eligible? What will be the minimum allowed play time in a years time to qualify for my 3GP's cause you know some people will try and skirt by with as little work as possible?

[Hellblazer]

Well that's why i left that opened for discussion . My initial thought about that was no, but then again I am wondering how would someone be able to automated it through the LORE to allows for a x amount of playing time required per year. Preventing someone of only playing like 2 or 3 months and say Hey I should have gotten GP's there.

[Xiaobeibi]

If you excluded time off you would defeat the purpose. One of the reasons people take time off or start playing less and less is when their character is near perming.

[Hellblazer]

If you excluded time off you would defeat the purpose. One of the reasons people take time off or start playing less and less is when their character is near perming.

In a sense yes, but I would be sad this addition became a way for a pure bashing fest without thinking of consequences. This would allow players to give more time to it knowing that if they have at least the minimum required they will get more chances at being able to beat the Soul mother, for a time. It would still require them to play with a certain sense of frailty and mortality, just not as much.

The example that what it should not be is this.

Player has 3 character, one is on the verge of perming, and plays it only a few times a year but 99% of the time the toon is in limbo while he plays his other toons. 2 years later he finds himself with 6 gp decide to use them all on ss returns and voila all of a sudden the toon that was this close to perming is now somewhat far away from it with putting very little time in that toon. That to me feels to much like a potential abuse, while if you give a minim required time in a year, 6? 7? month of regular playing, it would take that possible abuse out of the equation.

As an example, if toon x is played a minimum of 784 hours in a year, the player is entitle for the additional GP for that toon. 784 hours is the equivalence of playing 4 hours a day 7 days a week for 7 months out of the whole year. It's just an example, you could put it at 392 hours, which would be the equivalent of 2 hours a day for 7 months. Or if the team is really generous about it 192 hours (4 hours a week for the whole year) out of the 8094 hours that a year has (not including the leap years). But at least it shows that the player is still investing time into his toon.

[Nehetsrev]

Personally, I like the Soul Strand/Perma-Death system as it is (mostly).
 
  I don't agree that any character should have a Soul Strand re-attached for any reason with the exceptions of:
  1) A strand lost due to technical error, like verified lag, or server crash where a character signs back in surrounded by re-spawned mobs and becomes overwhelmed.
  2) A strand lost due to DM/GM error, like the occassion of a GM/DM spawning creatures too overpowered for a given group to handle triggering a total party kill, or near total party kill, or possibly a faction screw-up where NPC's that were supposed to remain friendly or neutral turn hostile (though this usually involves a mistake on the PC's part as well).
  3) A player successfully completes a very difficult CDQ/WLDQ to attain a Soul Strand being returned.
 
  Yes, I know it sucks when you have a character you really enjoy playing and they suffer a string of really terrible rolls versus the loss of a Soul Strand and thus perm-out at an early age.  However, I view that as something that can be worked into part of their character development, not as something that takes away from the character's development.  When faced with the iminent loss of their lives (assuming the character knows how many strands they have left, which if I've read previous discussions correctly the character's shouldn't) a character has a choice.  They may burn like a supernova and blast a big dramatic mark into the world before their passing.  Or, they may scale back their adventurousness to the point that they fade and whimper out of existence.  Or, they may choose a middle road and become more cautious, but still make a mark on the world as one who sees the big picture, and pulls the strings of other characters from behind the scenes to get the job done and do the dangerous work on their behalf (Good option for a World Leader if you ask me).  As the player of the character, you should be thinking of how your character would react, since you presumeably know their personality better than anyone.  Stay true to their personality to the end, whether it come swiftly or not for ages.
 
  As an alternative idea to making more work in the Graceful Plea area outside the game, perhaps in-game temples could start selling a consumeable item that grants a temporary boost to a character's roll versus losing a Soul Strand.  If I were to design the item (assuming it's possible to do so) I'd make it only useable outside of combat and give it something like a 5-15 minute duration (an hour tops), and make it cost a lot of True (and perhaps even some reputation points with the temple along the lines of "Hey, even though you've donated a lot to our church, what you're asking for here is too much, you don't get as much of a discount anymore.").  Make it an item that truly has a signifcant cost so that a character doesn't stock up on a bunch of them, and would only use it when the stakes are high.  Heck, make it take up an entire inventory page and make it un-stackable, Un-droppable, and un-tradeable (it doesn't have to weigh much though, if anything).  That'll keep players from toting around a whole bunch, plus they won't be able to store it in a chest/bank-vault to hoard it.  And even with this item active, it shouldn't be a total guarantee that a Soul Strand can't be lost.  There should always be that 5% chance that the Soul Mother overcomes this (divine) protection somehow and snips a strand anyway.
 
  Anyhow, that's all I have for now.  I hope all of what I've posted is given some thought, even if the new idea is rejected for any reason.

[Hellblazer]

Interesting thought there nehet but I see inherent problem with it.

1) That would benefit only the higher level players if it costs a lot of money, as they usually tend to have the most and have the easiest time to get it.

2) It would bring up a hording of the said item, just like for a time there we people carrying 5+ flags etc. Not the same use I'd say but in the long run, if it was too short lived, it could have a negative impact on log in lag.

3) It would encourage all to do more grinding just to be able to raise the money to buy that item. In the same process Higher level would get it easily, and you might see more lower level perm prematurely.

[Nehetsrev]

See my edit comment's above for solution to hoarding problem.  Also note if item takes up an entire inventory page the most one character could carry at a time is severly limitted.
 
 As to concerns for lower-level characters not being able to attain the item, they usually aren't the ones as concerned about losing those last few Soul Strands.  Cheating perma-death should -never- be something cheaply or easilly attained in any system that uses permadeath, as that defeats the purpose of the system which is to intensify user experience through palpable risk.
 
As to increased grinding to afford the item, that's a player's choice.  No one would be forced to buy the item, and indeed those characters who don't have the funds/reputation/inventory space to afford it would have the option to simply do without.  However, if their character was of high enough importance to them that they simply could not bear to let it go, this would be an option too that they could use to possibly delay that inevitability.
 
Also, the Graceful Plea system was never intended as a way for a player to say, "I choose to use 1 graceful plea to re-attatch one Soul Strand, simply because I have a Graceful plea with which to do so."  It was meant as an option to reduce all the administrative research that had to be done to check if a Soul Strand refund was truly merrited per the situation claimed by the player requesting it.

[Jilseponie Wyndon]

Interesting thoughts really.  Paying for items to increase rolls ... ehhh maybe, if done right.  

But as for the original idea, 3 would be too much of a return.  I would have suggested 1 added per year, not to have more than 3 at any time.  Besides, they are used for more than just returning soul strands.  And for those that do not play often, well, they would not have more than 3 built up and avoid abuse.  And if your the type of player that dies alot ... there is still that chance of perming.  Use up the 3 in your first year (If you use them all for SS) better be extra careful as you would only get 1 after a year has passed ... basically an extension for those "Die Hards"    Also on the non-soul strand side, after a year of playing or more, your character takes a turn unexpected through rp/mechanics, the GP will be there to take you to the surgery table

Just my 2 True

[miltonyorkcastle]

You know, that's an interesting idea, Nehetserev. Here's another take on it. Maybe you could walk up to a bindstone and feed it a bit more of your 'life force' (for lack of a better word) to get a temporary boost against the soul mother; say, like you suggested, adding a +5 to the check for an hour. Essentially, instead of it costing gold, it costs experience, and it requires you being near a bindstone. Maybe you get an item, maybe not and because it costs XP (and maybe a curve on the XP costs based on level, so it's more expensive for higher levels), any level can 'afford' it, yet people won't be inclined to hoard them (unless the character is 40th lvl), though I'm sure we could make it so that you could only ever have one in your inventory without the item taking up the whole page. Plus, you think twice about using it because it costs XP. But hey, if you're fairly certain you're going to die, it might be worth it, heh.

[Nehetsrev]

Sure!  The XP payment route would work great too.  Better even, for some people who like me always seem to be short of enough True to buy even the standard gear for their current level.  But I'd still suggest allowing an item that can be activated, rather than having the timer start right there at the Bindstone.  And if you can make the item so that only one can be posessed at any time without taking up the extra inventory space, then that's even better than my suggestion.  I just wasn't sure that was possible since I haven't really played around with creating new items in the NWN Aurora Toolset much.
 
Another spin on the idea, make it a function of the Soul Stones we all carry.  Allow the player the option to choose to invest a % of their earned XP toward their next level to gain a relative increase % to save vs. Soul Strand loss when they activate a Soul Stone.  It would save having to add another item to the pallette, and might keep more clerics happy since more people may be inclined to keep an activated Soul Stone on their person.  Though this would forgo the buff-timer as mentioned in the original idea, but may be better since it could be set up to use that save bonus on the first (and only the first) death after the Soul Stone in activated. Of course if a character dies and chooses to go back to the Bindstone instead of being rezzed by a cleric they'd still have the activated Soul Stone (in case they're rezzed by a cleric on some later death), but it's 'charge' for the increased save would have been used up on that first death after imprinting of the Soul Stone.  If that's too confusing, I can try to explain it with different wording in a later post, but I think this should get my general idea across.