Tongues?

[darkstorme]

The suggestion of the Draconic (Arcane) ear reminded me of a thought I'd had the other day - could a "Tongues" spell be scripted?  I'm just looking into server-side spell tie-ins, but if it were tied to a focus, that could work, I think.. the focus would just act as whichever ear you targeted the "Tongues" spell as.  It would greatly facilitate communications, and would allow for greater RP opportunity - a newcomer who doesn't speak Common happens into Hlint, a mystic figure makes a few passes in the air and starts talking to them in their own language...

I could see two major problems with this - one, that it might be unbalancing, as it would remove the need to RP appropriately to get an ear in a language (but as it'd take up a spell-slot and be shortlasting, that might not be a problem), and two, that it might be incredibly difficult to implement.. but interpretation is key to the wizard's role in a lot of PnP campaigns.

Thoughts, anyone?

[Fatherchaos]

Tongues was always one of my favorite spells in the rl DND games . . . It never unbalanced anything in our games, and acutally added to the overal mysticism view on magi from other players. All in all it was just good times . . . I've been hoping that tongues would become available for some time

[darkstorme]

I was tremendously excited when I saw that multiple languages were supported in Layo - it meant that Tongues would finally be a useful and implementable spell.

(And let's pause a moment to reflect on the irony of the phrase "rl DND". *grins*)

[Fatherchaos]

rl dnd = table top No larp for me LOL

or mabey I meant "really long" j/k

[EdTheKet]

I think that if we implemented this spell, people would cast it constantly and not want to try and obtain language ears anymore. You'd also lose the RP you have when not speaking the same language. I would think it is way more fun to try and understand eachother pointing at things and slowly learning a language than just casting a spell.

[Fatherchaos]

That can be fun to an extent - but magic has its uses - and this would certainly be one of those issues that a mage might seek to overcome, especially if they ever hit their 5 language limit :0

I do see some rampant use, but that is nothing that good rp can't take care of.

[Stephen_Zuckerman]

It's a second-level Bard spell, fourth Cleric, and third Wiz/Sor. That means that they'd have to have Eschew II to not need a material component.

That would cut down on "rampant use."

[Reventage]

Some spells that exist in the various world of DnD do not exist in Layonara. The reasons for these are varied but no doubt onoe of the reasons would be that they do not fit the generic systems we have in place in the world. I adimt to thinking that the spell of Tongues would be one such a spell. As things are now it will even at the best cases take months of active RP to teach a character even one simple language. This should prove how much weight we are putting to the various languages and give the system deeper meaning. Allowing all this to be done trough a simple spell would skip past so much of the inherent RP in various languages that the system would almost be rendered trivial.

For IC reasons to this you can say that the Weave of Layonara bends to some forms easier than others and it being almost impossible to bend the weave in such manner that it would grant an inherent understanding of languages used but not understood by the caster and even harder to allow speaking of such languages. Maybe such a spell would indeed exist but it would be a nearly epic task to master the intricet manner in which the spell would need to be performed and the ingredients would be costy making casting it an epic feat, not to mention the momentous task of first finding such a spell. It is not something any whelpling of a mage can pull off.

[Fatherchaos]

Given the effort, and intent that Layo is a low magic world, I can mostly agree with you there Reventage. I never actually suggested this myself for those particular reasons . . . but can't deny one of those spells that I do miss from my tabletop games.

I'll stick with trying to find a touting mimir for now

[Faldred]

Stephen_Zuckerman - 6/27/2006  7:07 PM

It's a second-level Bard spell, fourth Cleric, and third Wiz/Sor. That means that they'd have to have Eschew II to not need a material component.

That would cut down on "rampant use."

And if it's still "unbalancing", consider decreasing duration and/or increasing the spell level.  I think it's a neat idea in general, and could lead to great RP situations, such as having a parley with a troop of giants (if you'll remember some of my comments regarding the possible retaking of Pranzis).  Perhaps categorize the languages into families -- the closer the family to something the caster knows, the more effective (quality and/or duration) the spell becomes, and vice-versa.  For example, using "Tongues" to understand/speak Drow if the caster knows Elvish would more likely to be successful than trying to deal with Infernal.  Maybe even require a DC check as part of determining if the spell is effective?

[darkstorme]

Faldred - Maybe even require a DC check as part of determining if the spell is effective?

This is a GREAT idea.  I don't know that it could be based on languages the character already has, but certainly there could be a tiered DC level for various languages, depending on what they are.  I still think that the opportunities opened by having this spell outweigh the disadvantages.

[Dorganath]

To add to what Ed and Reventage have already said....
  NWN and and Layonara are not PnP. Yes, Tongues is a neat spell, but does it really make sense in an online setting or more specifically, does it make sense here? I personally lean toward "no".
  There are really a much greater array of spells available in PnP than there are in NWN. The simplest explaination is that many of them just do not work in a computer base setting that does not require GM intervention.
  There are also spells which are in NWN and Layonara which do not exist in PnP gaming. And there are spells that exist in both but which have more uses in PnP than they do in NWN/Layonara. One that has come up now and then is Gate, especially now that we have the Planes server, as in PnP, Gate allows for planar travel. However, for various reasons we don't allow that use here.
  Tongues will be misused, regardless of components (which can be easily avoided through Eschew II), length restrictions, etc. It short-circuits the RP factor in learning languages, and on a technical side would probably introduce more complexity than most people realize.
  And to put things in perspective there is a device currently in-game that will give partial understanding to languages. It does not, however, give the ability to speak them. And furthermore, the partial understanding for mortal languages only (elvish, dwarvish, drow, etc.) doesn't even start until the possessor is level 28. Planar and other special languages come at higher levels, but again, the understanding is only partial.
  So in the Layonara perspective, Tongues is really not a good fit.

[darkstorme]

Understood.  Thanks for being on top of this.