Traveling Salesman idea.

[Guardian 452]

Long ago we had a "Traveling Salesman" He/she never traveled though. They seemed to like the Forest of Fog (Mist back then). THey sold a few unique items. As I recall nothing that was uber world altering gear. Just things that made you go.. Hmm thats kinda cool I might use that.

I was kicking around an idea to revamp and bring back a traveling salesman/woman.

Pick about 8 to 12 locations this "traveling salesman/woman" would spawn...or be placed once per reset or when GM's could get around to it. Now that we have such asesome server stability maybe even move them a couple times per 300 hour plus up time. (all up to if the GM's have time of course).

The salesman/woman would have about 6 to 10 items they would sell. But they would draw from a pool of say 20 to 40 items... Thus making what they had for sale appear to change up a bit each time they are in a new area to sell their goods. Again not Uber items... No plus 5 weapons, or Save vs death with a DC 30 type stuff. Unique items that make you go... Hmm... I might use that, or I could see using that in "x" situation. And "fun items" that really wont change the world as far as making someone an uber 1 man army. But maybe do some neat affect, appearance, etc.

Thanks for taking the time to consider this idea.

G-452

[Dorganath]

To add to this discussion, and especially for those who do not remember this guy, the Traveling Salesman did have a couple of "issues". None of these are particularly vexing, but let's just say if we do bring this back, I'd like to improve upon it.

1) He never really traveled. -- OK, not such a huge thing, but the question here is should he always be in the same place, be GM-spawned or automatically appear at one of several pre-defined locations? Discuss!

2) His goods were unlimited -- Again, not a huge thing if the goods are cheap and of marginal use anyway. One thing he did have was healing supplies, which I know were bought by the case by some depending on the situation.  Alternatively, each item can be limited to a given number and once that's gone, that's all (until a reset). This of course can be a problem of a different sort if the salesman is always in the same place and the "Pawn Shop Effect" takes hold, but it's less of an issue if the salesman moves around. Again, just something to consider. Discuss!

3) The inventory is static -- In order to keep it interesting, the inventory of the salesman needs to change now and then, most likely. If this is not an issue, then it doesn't matter much. Otherwise, without an update or at least the creation of a configurable system, the salesman is unlikely to change with any regularity. Again, discuss!

These issues were, in part, why the Traveling Salesman was removed originally.

That's all. Come up with a plan!

[davidhoff]

It would be fun and spark RP to be travelling and suddenly see some salesman out in the woods/dungeon, etc.  I like it.  It makes a nice way to break things up and add a bit of birthday-surprise to go see what he's selling.

1.  GM spawned or automatically appear...either one or both.  Maybe have more than one salesman...one GM spawned and one auto-appear at randomly designated locations.

2.  Move him around and no pawnshop affect (not quite sure what pawnshop affect is though).  As far as unlimited goods *shrugs*, not really sure, I think if marginal goods not really an issue.  

3.  As far as inventory, I think the most interesting thing would for it to change so you have that "lets go see what he's selling this time" affect.  Maybe if he sold some tinder, picks, chisels and shovels that might be neat if you're running low.

If he/she could buy some of your heavy items, that might be a help if you were carrying some heavy drops.

[Dorganath]

Pawn Shop Effect:

People rush the merchant NPC when the server resets, depleting him/her of goods/gold within minutes or hours.

This sort of thing would probably plague a traveling salesman that does not move and has limited quantities of consumable and popular/desirable items.

Carry on...

[Lance Stargazer]

As i see the issues , indeed agreeing those may be easily fixed. Granted i don't know much about the toolset and scripting ( i am no programer myself ) , Not sure how hard would be to make it appear on diferent random places per server reset or even changing upon certain conditions. ( which i do think it would be the best ).

As for Gm spawned or stationary, I'd say stationary, yet a gm stiill will be able to grab him/her to toss some changes upon the area.

I don't think its a good idea to allow him to buy things from you, or if it does he/ she would do it with the "small town" pawnshop prices and money credit, yet I would prefer it to not to buy anything ( even if its not realist ), to avoid it to become "another" pawnshop if that make sense.

As for the items, I do think there is already some items the guy sell, and there are some other items on the world that are unique, but personally i haven't seen them to be bought that often ( save some axes if i got it right ). Well so with that said i haven't seen what merchandise this wanderer seller might offer ( save some mask ), but i don't think it would become that useful or popular save certain items ( with again the caveat of not having seen the items ), but anyway, a finite number of items would be great, Lets say 10 pieces and trying to put 2 of lets say the 10 available each reset.

That are the first ideas taht come to my mind though .

My 2 trues

[Nehetsrev]

Just wondering, but could it be scripted to call on the running in-game calendar date, specificly the month or day fields?  If so, different instances of the merchant could be added to different areas, perhaps on what would amount to be a circular anual itinerary.  When the day/month of in-game time was correct the script would spawn the version of the merchant for one location along his route.  When it was time for the merchant to 'move on' the script would despawn him in that location.  So, to say it another way, one month he may be in Hlint, the next he may be in Mariner's Hold, and the next month he may be in Kartherien, etc. with his route eventually bringing him back to Hlint at the same time the next year.  In each location he might have unique curiosities for sale that he has 'brought' from the previous location he's visited.  These could be fireworks, or foodstuffs, or alcohol, with a few unique items that might actually be helpful for adventurers across a wide range of levels thrown in as well.  For example Xeenite Red wine might be in his stock for one or two stops after he's left Kartherien, and while he's in Kartherien he might have a supply of lion-leather whips he's brought from Fort Homestead (made from the lions that range near there).  His prices for these regional items might even then be justifiably slightly higher than the norms, to signify his bringing them to places with a higher demand for them due to their rarity in that area.
 
Another thought to go with the regional items idea; maybe add quests for players to make or acquire certain items for him that he'd normally buy in a region but is having trouble acquiring from the locals he normally deals with for whatever reason.  Using examples above, picture this merchant offering to buy those lion whips from a player while he's in the area of Fort Homestead, since he knows he'll likely be able to sell/trade them to those Xeenites once he gets to Kartherian.  He'll want to make a profit of course, so he'd only offer an item in trade for them rather than True, say something he picked up while in Mariner's Hold.  This sort of thing might really bring a lot of flavor to the idea of the traveling sales man and tie the different areas/cultures of the world together in a way as well.

[Guardian 452]

I didn't consider it buying items back. I like that idea too. However... we dont really have a shortage of pawners.... just pawners with money (see next issue LOL)

The Rush effect cant be stopped. It's always going to happen with the pawns... it is also happening with the new Saddlebag shop. People see something spiffy they rush to get it. If the traveling salesman had a limited quantity of its wares it too would suffer from this rush effect.

The best way to avoid the "Rush" effect would be to just have the traveling salesman be GM spawned. Or if somehow possible have it spawn and despawn in its chosen areas at random. Meaning it wouldn't always spawn at location "X" after a reset. True people would still try to rush... but if they had 12 to as much as 20 places to look across 2 servers that would slow it down a bit.

I like the regional flavor idea as well. Having a few things for sale from that region.. or the region they were at recently. Is this possible in NWN... I doubt it. But still a cool idea.

I would also like to state that just like in real life... having a shortage of something and people rushing to buy it happens all the time. So what? Look at the Christmas "must have" items of years past? Cabbage Patch kids, Tickle me Elmo, Zhu Zhu Pets.... the list goes on. They all had the same thing.. a shortage of supply vs. demand. So some people bought them up and resold them at a profit (sometimes INSANE profit). Why cant this be allowed to happen in the game? Why must steps be taken to make sure this cant happen... and if steps cant be made... why let it kill the idea? Cant please everyone right?


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[Dorganath]

Again, for perspective...

Regional inventories are cool, but they also make the system far more complex, especially if there's a random-spawn set-up and a dynamic store population system. Not only is it far more complex to implement, but far more involved to maintain.

Carry on.

[drakogear]

My thoughts on this if I may... though perhaps already mentioned. (posts looking long and being to lazy to read all thoroughly) Have multiple (though identical) salesmen/women in a separate area each and set on a spawn/despawn timer. These timers being set to different times so when one spawns in one area he/she is no where else till after the timer expires and they despawn at which point the respawn at another (preferable the next) area, beginning that timer, that timer expires and thus the salesperson despawns/respawns elsewhere( the next). This spawning pattern being set in an infinite loop as it were as though they were traveling through a trade rout from one town to the next. Player/adventurers outside of town would likely meet up with the salespeople as they stand in the pathways.

Alternatively... could be set probably just have one... or even keep with multiple and set them to walk a designated rout from one city to the next. Despawning there and respawning at that place with new (randomly generated) supplies then heads on to the next town. Even as an NPC they should still be able to move from one area to the next on there own... if not... how was it that creatures managed to follow me from one area to the next when I tried running away (recently learning there's little to no getting away :mad: and against rules to lead creatures into town areas apologies)

Perhaps even better yet... instead of a traveling salesman/women why not... a trade caravan? Small group of traders traveling together with there own specialized goods (one armor, one weapons, one magic, one general, one crafting goods) Though the later (walking paths) might cause them to spread and maybe even split as players talk and trade with them so... caravan would perhaps be better suited to the rapid spawn/despawn instead.

Additionally, to perhaps help with this "pawnshop effect" for the salesperson... why not make different ones with there own routs. For instance... one for norther Mistone, one foe southern Mistone and one foe Central Mistone... same for all the other lands... cant quite rush them all at once now can we? :p With this there would be atleast 9 salespeople... plus one for each of the smaller lands(Krashin, dragonsong ect) (Ok, I forgot the name that Dragonsong was on) each with there own randomly generated inventory upon respawning in the town they arrived at.

Anyways, just a few thoughts on how this could be brought back and made more uh... real? And with little to no GM maintenance or control. Just creat them and a large pool of items for them to pull from when the respawn and let the go about there way.

Then again... I'm no modder.scripter or anything like that so... might be a little more complex then that but... sound doable...right? :\\ Isn't the things taken from slain enemies the stuff they spawned with in there inventory? If so... seems quite random to me... and doesn't even need a server reset... they simply respawn on there own with something else to loot.

[Dorganath]

Why cant this be allowed to happen in the game? Why must steps be taken to make sure this cant happen... and if steps cant be made... why let it kill the idea? Cant please everyone right?

It can and does...and frustrates everyone else.  The whole situation with the pawn shops is the prime case and point.  A narrow few with 6-digit (or more) bank balances who pounce on the server and deplete the pawn shops by selling their high-level goods annoy the heck out of low-level players who actually need the few coins that the pawn shops can pay them for their extra loot but can't get it because they were already drained.  Since the social shame method didn't work, I had to code something up to keep some pawn shops from buying from characters over a certain level.

On the same token, limited goods on a traveling salesman should not just go to the ones lucky enough to have the schedules and spare available hours to stalk resets and harvest goods from vendors. Since we don't have any real economic forces or systems at work here, it's not like their stock is going to go up in price just because they sell out quickly. It's not happening. Resupply is known as a restart. Everything resets.  The harvesters come back for another pass.  Fun for them, everyone else is left out in the cold.

But this question misses the point. I tossed some questions and observations out there. I am not, at this time, debating the merits or negatives for this idea. At all.  Because of this very sort of question and comment of "killing the idea"...which I am absolutely not doing. I'm trying to let the creativity go while adding technical and historical perspective.  If that's "killing" things, then that's your opinion, not mine, and certainly not the intent.

At this time, I am in no way opposed to the idea. I said I'd like it to be better than it was, if possible.  Things like limited vs. unlimited stock, static placement vs. random or GM-spawning...all this stuff goes into the mix. All can be possible in some combination or the other. The trick is to find which combination is going to work well for the intent and getting the most bang for the buck.  

I won't comment further. Please, continue the discussion.

[Guardian 452]

I was looking around on NWN-wiki and found the following.

Markshire - NWNWiki, the Neverwinter Nights Wiki - your guide to the game of NWN

Tired of visiting a merchant and wondering if the builders might have added something new today? So are we. This new system was built specifically for Markshire and allows the individual merchants to have daily changing inventories. The system utilizes tables of merchandise that are randomly spawned on the merchant at module load. So today the fur merchant has several badger skins, a series of different feline skins and the ever so illusive dire bear skin. Across the street another merchant is hawking his wares and has a variety of various alchemical equipment and ingredients for sale. Each merchant also has random buy/sell rates to simulate market fluctuations. Today he sells that healing kit +1 for one price, tomorrow he's nearly out and decides to get something extra for his now rare items. We combine this with our random encounter system's latest addition mentioned below.

This sounds like it could be made into the caravan idea Drakogear mentioned.

Then I found this one.
Animatronic store - NWNWiki, the Neverwinter Nights Wiki - your guide to the game of NWN

It sounds like the start of what we talked about here....

The script stocks the nearest store using the standard (non-expansion) treasure system included in NWN, based on the keyword in the placeable's tag. This treasure system often factors a character's class and level into which items are created; for this script, it is the NPC's class and level that affect the items. Next, the NPC moves to the PC and starts the "basic_merchant" conversation, which ends with the newly-stocked store being opened.

Doesnt sound quite like what I was envisioning but it may be the starting blocks of it... maybe?


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[Guardian 452]

Another I found on the vault... sounds like some of what we have already.

Bedlamson's Dynamic Merchants System
Bedlamson's Dynamic Merchants System -- Neverwinter Nights 2 Vault

This script incorporates several merchant features into one set of scripts: Dynamic Inventories, Self-cleaning Inventories, Haggling, Prejudice, Favoritism, and Stealing from Merchants. This system does not require any scripting, as it uses a parameter/switch system similar to NWNSS, but does not require any heartbeats. UPDATE: changed the conversation to make better use of tokens. For search purposes: store, NPC, shop, steal, haggle, like, dislike, buy, sell, random, inventory, clean up, timer, delay.

[Pen N Popper]

On a related note, what would you stock this merchant with? For all the work it would take to set up the merchant (which is a fun, idea), what could he be selling that would make you want to drag your PC around to find him?

XP - Find him, sell him something he needs, get 100xp.
Artifact Pieces - Collect all 7 flavors of Lucky Charms and win a prize!
Keys - Like a junkyard sale that you find a safe-deposit box key at: Now go search for the door! (That ought to keep people busy!)
Power - So, you sold those iron longswords you crafted. Nice! Oh, you didn't want them in the hands of the suddely well-armed bandits burning down your precious house in Leringard? That's a sad tale; go sob in someone else's ale.
Good vs. Evil - Sell gear to him to stock the enemy. Buy gear from him to take the power away. How's that for a gold sink? What does the winner get? Prantz!

[miltonyorkcastle]

Oooo, I like the idea of random pricing for goods. Makes the haggling option (appraise, intimidate, etc.) we currently have available even more helpful and realistic.

[Guardian 452]

I envisioned this traveling merchant selling rare, but not overpowering items. Things that would make you go... Hmm... I could see using that. Or... oh that looks like fun! That kinda stuff. Not +5 swords, or save vs DC 40 or die kind of things. LOL

Items with some give and take. Ohh nice these gloves have +1 Int... but they also have -2 Spot and -2 Search. Or... Nice armor it has some Acid resist (-5 acid resist)... but it seems to be a bit stiff.. -2 Dex

Maybe food, potions, and other consumables as well.

[drakogear]

Hm, what about some CNR? perhaps those found with a crafting merchant as too perhaps a limited supply of CNR found in wild? Wood, ore, gems, hide, herbs, spices?

[Guardian 452]

Id say yeah if it weren't for the new Saddlebag Shop. Unless you are talking more rare CNR in which case I still dont quite think it would belong. At least not in any quantity... that would make it.... Not so rare. lol

[davidhoff]

This concept and all the replies had me thinking that the "quest" element of the traveling salesman would be a nice idea.  Like Popper said, if he gave you a mini-quest for xp that would be neat.  Like go bring me X (10 red mushroom or 12 queen silk, or a minatour's head, or a balor horn, etc.).  These quests would change each time he moved.  I don't know how you could script it so folks couldn't re-do the quest over (exploit), but maybe you could.  Also, I don't think you would need to clog your journal up with each quest, but not sure if that's possible.

As an aside, this quest idea would still be a neat idea even if it wasn't with the Traveling Salesman.  You could have an adventuring board (maybe the one in Center) that pops these new-revolving quests out ever month or every-other month.

[mixafix]

I like the quest idea - people could be asked for things already in game which might tie in with the unusual item idea
 
 say bring me X number of Iron hammers(or any weapon not often used) and I will trade you an iron hammer with (a minor bonus on it)
 
 This may dropped in as a once only opportunity or as long as the trader remains at post.
 
 How many and what type of weapons the trader has could be varied with each salesman stored for gm deployment (or by some random scripting?)
 
 weapons could be changed for resources too as has been suggested above. bring me x gold nuggets for ..something gold.