V3 constructive criticism - Newbies

[Nibor21]

Firstly let me say how painfully beautiful v3 is.

Having taken my level 16 char around this morning I had a brilliant time.

However I had a new char approved last week and I have made her today. I choose Port Hempstead as a starting location.

Now I am biasing my views on the fact I know Hlint of v2.

1.) As an experienced Layo player I know that Deliar is the god of trade/merchants etc. However for Layo Newbies I would like to see the shops in the temple and the bank moved out of the temple and into vacant buildings - there are plenty in Hempstead to pick from. A Newbie would look for the obvious and we are trying to create that cozy snug feeling.

2.) Hlint has a great collection of Newbie quests that mollycoddle a new PC up to about Level three with the minimum of risk. I can find one quest to do in Hempstead and in all honesty I am not brave enough to try it yet. Can I suggest its time for Master Vale and Master Johan to decided its time for a new location in their lives?

3.) And this may be a silly point, but... Hlint had a nice cozy feel about it. There were always people sitting chatting under the stars, and it was all done in such a way that a newbie felt they could wander up and ask for help. Hempstead doesn't give me that feeling of cozyness, it is far more impressive, but not cudly. I realise at the moment no one is about because they are all off seeing the many wonders in v3

I hope you don't feel i am complaining just to be a troll and miserable. Everything I saw out and about is truly brilliant, and really adds so much more to Layo, its just I feel that pointing out deficiencies that players new to Layonara may have now, will help bring many more friends into our already great community.

Nibor

[Acacea]

Agreed on some of the shops, but I think those were probably on the list already.

I'm pretty sure quests are going to be added and current ones tweaked...hopefully not simply moved but I imagine that even if that happened it would be temporary.

And yeah I think it will take some time for players to hang around a new place, kind of a transitional point where current ones are still in Hlint mode but steadily people will be starting in a new place and eventually move the collective. I'm not too worried about Hempstead, I think it'll happen eventually. I was thinking without an enormous amount of active players, Vehl would likely be on the lonely side, though. Hehe.

[Witch Hunter]

Well with the rise of more neutral/evil characters soon Vehl should be quite the place to hang out in, I've already had some fun RP over there! it's a scumbag hole!

As for the newbie areas... I've got the feeling they're a biiiiiiit too hard! I went to the Kobold place with a level 10 char and had troubles... archers casting ray of frost every second (it adds up... 4+4+4+4=16!) and like a bunch of 30hp (meaning they dont die when I whirlwind them!) kobolds all ganking you while a shaman dazes you...

Sure the spawn was tougher because im a higher level but..uh... that tough?

Oh and the bandits everywhere... poor lil people gonna have a rough time hehe

[Dorganath]

Spawns will be balanced, but some will be intentionally challenging. None of them, even when appropriate for your level, should be easy, as your whirlwind comment would suggest. And remember, Layonara is intended for grouping, not soloing, and it's very likely that a large number of encounters will be balanced toward a single group.
  I can think of several encounters 1-2 areas away from Hlint in V2 that would very likely be too difficult for many solo level 10 characters.
  On the bandits...Remember, these are the Dark Ages. Hunger, crop failure, and other stresses will likely drive more and more to live as bandits, preying on unsuspecting or unprepared travellers.
  Overall, balancing is something that takes time, so assume things will probably change, and if they don't we might want them to be that way.

[Faldred]

Witch Hunter - 2/28/2007  1:20 PM

archers casting ray of frost every second (it adds up... 4+4+4+4=16!)

You know, I'm sure quite a few crafters would be quite willing to sell you something for DR 5 Cold.  

[Nibor21]

*look rather embarrassed * Well my level 1 rogue attempted the kobolds outside Hempstead, she was in a party with a lvl 5 monk. We both fell. The rogue was unable to even hit a Kobold

[Leanthar]

We will fix the starting areas to be far more friendly than they are now, just give us some time please.

[Nibor21]

Bah I bet Pan is being selfish and wants more than 30 minutes sleep a week.

[Acacea]

Well, about being level one... you don't usually go straight from the road of destiny to the goblin wastelands and go out killing goblins...you go to the sewers, probably the crypts as well. The kobolds look like they're meant to be the equivalent of hunting in the red-lights...not the level one sewers.

[Leanthar]

You are correct Acacea, and there are low level quests set up in the towns (just like you suggested).

[Nibor21]

I readily accept that - I just couldn't find an equivalent to the sewer quest. And leaving the Hempstead area seems even more dangerous. I am not complaining about the kobolds themselves - it seems a nicely set out mini-quest.

I was merely stating it is difficult for a level one PC to get off the ground

[Pankoki]

Yep, I'm working on balancing out the new player stuff. But there are low level areas in Hempstead and Fort Vehl. Explore Hempstead and you shall find its sewers, explore Vehl and you shall find its crypts. Both with quests (which I would appreciate to get some feedback on). Then once you reach the same levels that you would have once you were done with these in Hlint you can safely explore outside Vehl and outside Hempstead.
  With all that said, yes, I'm working to shifting the balance more properly to the beginning areas. In the meanwhile, try and group up with folks before going exploring, it'll guarantee some less reflection times.
 

[Tialle Dianesis]

I have to agree with Nibar21 on most points he makes. Port Hempstead lacks the comfortable feeling that Hlint would always provide. It seems too large and varied to become accustomed to easily, unlike Hlint. I've been exploring the town of Port Hempstead for more than an hour and I still get lost.

Port Hempstead's grand size makes it feel a bit empty and cold with a lack of NPCs or player characters to be seen around most of the time. While circling the town trying to find my way out I'll be lucky if I run into four other players. This gives the town a lonely feeling even if I know there are 30+ other people around, out in the server. I know most likely this is because the majority of the players are out sight-seeing and I'll admit I need to give this one time to see how it ends up.
As for the buildings there seem to be plenty of them that serve little function and the few that are worth visiting are scattered across town.
In turn this causes an inconvenience when traveling through the city to find common buildings like the bank, craft house, temple shops, etc.
This large town also tends to keep players apart more often and it doesn't create a comfort zone for people to just relax and chat like the benches of Hlint. Maybe if the whole town were to be smaller and more centered around the large fountain it could fix all this, though I realize that takes a great amount of work to accomplish so I'm keeping this last idea as just a suggestion.

That's just my two cents on the subject. I'm sure there was a lot of effort put in to this town and I still have to say I'm beyond impressed. I mean just.. WOW!! Port Hempstead looks gorgeous!! It's exactly what I imagined a starting area should look like. The forests close by are true eye candy. I was in complete awe while I walked through the forest at night. So much that I didn't realize I was walking straight into a mercenary camp. =/


Good work TEAM!

[Witch Hunter]

Dapplegreen is actually quite active... I sat there at the pond by the enternce (looks great btw) with Elohanna and at least 4 players ran by and stopped, others were nearby at the other edge of the forest as well.

I think the pond should be made a "safe rest zone" like the fire outside of hlint was :O its a nice place.