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Messages - Ne'er
1
« on: January 07, 2013, 10:30:25 pm »
What still seems to be separated in your mind is that being a Pyrtechonite trumps being a Champion. It does not. This is an inclusive situation. There are requirements for being a Pyrtechonite, and there are requirements for being a Champion. Umm... what does that actually mean? Is there a universal idea of a champion that is somehow equally applicable to Toran, Corath, and Pyrtechon, three incredibly different gods? Sure, if there was an order of "Champions" that took certain vows and somehow viewed equally across the board as filling the same function, but just serving different gods, that would make sense. But that really doesn't seem to be how the flavor of the classes are written (or maybe it is and I've just really missed the mark on understanding that one). If that's the case, then why not just have "Divine Champion" as a class, make the requirements static, and let people who follow any god become one? That would be actually be sort of nifty. I know back in my heyday Jet would have loved to become a Champion of Ilsare. But again, unless I've really missed the mark on understanding this, being a Pyrtechonite should trump being this ambiguous "champion." That's what the flavor of the class is, its what makes it different, and I have a very hard time believing that someone would be selected as a champion of any faith that didn't at the very least strive to be the very embodiment of that faith. For a Chaotic Pyrtechonite it's not about "focusing" so much as favoring and becoming very effective with a particular weapon. But why become focused on a particular weapon when that leaves you at risk of being a one-trick pony? Maybe tomorrow his free-spirited whims would lead him to want to set someone on fire and pound them into submission with his bare hands? Which brings me to the next point... A Jack-of-all-Trades is a master of none. Very true, but the mistake here is thinking that weapon skill is the only skill. Pyrtechon doesn't deal in mastery in swordsmanship or stealth; Pyrtechon is the master of unbridled fury and destruction. When I think of the man (or woman) who will carry that flag holding a burning home (likely tattered and burned from some horrible campaign) so I imagine the man who meticulously honed his swordsmanship, or axesmanship, or maulsmanship to best his opponents? No! I imagine a terrifying berserker who may have some tried and tested skill at arms, but more likely than not draws his strength from two sources: his own hate and anger and the divine wrath of a god who is basically just wrath and no cunning. The Champion I imagine is specialized, but its in destruction and fury, not honed skill at arms. This idea is not in conflict with the lore surrounding Pyrtechon, nor is it in conflict with the lore surrounding champions. Pyrtechon would want his Champions to be the best destroyers possible, and a mechanical manifestation of that would be requiring a Weapon Focus feat. This seems like an arguable point at best. The other best way to mechanical be as destructive as possible is to take Weapon Specialization. Or Improved Critical. But that's enough about mechanics... I thought Layonara was about roleplay first, and game mechanics third or fourth? And the fact is that Weapon Focus may be the defacto feat for most fighters because, yes it is a good feat for someone who wants to lock themselves into a weapon, and it frankly fits the backstory of most characters who are usually trained with one weapon. But roleplay wise, what is it? It is long-term training and experience with one weapon, focus on it over all others. There's really no escaping that unless we really want to downplay the roleplaying value of feat selection. I honestly don't think it makes sense as a necessity. Yes it makes sense for Champions of other gods, I grant you that, but I again ask: what does that actually mean in regards to being a champion of this god? Point Blank Shot is not a valid comparison here, because it does not apply to melee weapons. Champions are primarily a melee-focused class. Once again, what is this based on thematically? The Champions of Corath, Toran, and the default NWN Torm? As far as I see it, this comparison is perfectly valid - a theoretical champion of Folian S'pae would probably largely disagree that Champions must be melee based. Of course, he could always just take Weapon Focus (longbow), but he'd be a fool to pass up Point Blank Shot because mechanically, that's the one that makes sense. Now its heart of the matter time, and the real reason I was interested in this debate: But I also have to wonder why not also debate the merits of 5 ranks in Hide. Why would the Destroyer's Champion need or want to hide? Is he only to destroy in stealth? I doubt it. Lore-wise, that makes less sense than the original complaint, don't you think? You are 100% correct on this, and the Hide skill makes no sense whatsoever, for a Pyrtechonite or this theoretical "Champion" that you've alluded to and sort of describe in the next paragraph: So again, keeping a Weapon Focus requirement for all Champions (regardless of deity) seems to make a lot of sense, because it's consistent for Champions. If we're going to take that away, we shouldn't call them Champions, but that seems kind of a big and unnecessary shift for such a minor matter, when most or all of the lore matters related to UCoP can be solved simply by opening up the requirement to any Weapon Focus, not a specific one. The Champion of Toran doesn't have that Hide requirement, am I wrong? Neither does the Champion of Vorax. Why not? Are they not all Champions first, and followers of their gods second? Yes, there is an alignment difference - Toran and Vorax are good, Corath and Pyrtechon are evil. This much is clear as day. But this is at its heart a mechanical difference. Evil is not the same as evil, and good is not the same as good. Honestly, the differences between Pyrtechon and Corath are arguable as different as the differences between Toran and Pyrtechon. Sure, in one case the two gods share alignments, but they otherwise have hugely different tenets and hugely different beliefs. To Pyrtechon, the Corathite is more fuel for the fire, but to the Corathite, the Pyrtechonite is a tool to be aimed and unleashed, but always kept on one of the things a Pyrtechonite hates most: a leash. Obviously these gods are different in many, many ways, other than alignment. But mechanical, the champion classes are divided in this way. That honestly seems highly contradictory: if they are all Champions in some universal sense, then how come they are still treated differently? Which to me means there are really two options here: either champions are tailored to their god, or they are some other more universal concept. Restricting it based solely on alignment is honestly just bad roleplaying. So here are my two propositions: accept that champions are unique to specific gods and tailor the PrCs to reflect that. That likely means whole new abilities, whole new requirements, although I think the write-ups wouldn't need to be redone. Sadly, this means that other gods will be left championless unless someone really wants to take the time to construct new classes for all of them, but maybe that's ok. Maybe the only gods who have need of specific champions are the ones that already have the classes. The other option is to toss out specific champions of Toran, Corath, etc. and house them all under the "Divine Champion" PrC. This seems to me what you've been alluding to the desired case. If this singular class existed, the restriction could just be Weapon Focus, BAB +7, and no alignment restriction. Sure, people would need to be the same alignment as the god they wanted to champion, but that's what character approvals are for. This is the less sticky option that, in a weird way, gives characters of other gods something fun to work towards if they so desire. It also I think reconciles some of the inconsistencies that exist in the current understandings of "Champions" in Layonara. Truth be told I don't think either solution will actually happen, but it is fun to think about. TL;DR - Champions should either be specific to gods or wholly generic; the current system is strikingly inconsistent.
2
« on: August 05, 2012, 05:51:26 pm »
Hey everyone,
So most of you probably don't remember me, since my heyday at Layonara was well over 5 years ago when I was both an avid player and a GM. I've been in and out since, but I've since retired completely from the game. But I do still check these forums every once in awhile, mostly to see how the MMO is progressing and who is still around. I thought since you're looking for input, I might have some from the "old player's perspective."
When I first started at Layonara, I was about 13 years old and in love with computer RPGs like NWN. Naturally, that pushed me into looking for some decent online play. I didn't have any desire to play necessarily on a roleplaying server, but as luck would have it I ended up on Layonara, mostly through chance after searching for a good server. Everyone in the game was quite friendly, and the world seemed so huge and interesting. I made one character, and then another, and then another, until at one point I made a character named "Jet" that I grew fairly attached to. I saw players doing very exciting things, like the Grand Opening of the Leilon Arms, and I saw some very exciting quests at nearly every hour of the day.
I liked it so much that I wanted to help out. I applied to be a GM and started working on CDQs and other major questlines and to this day those are some of my fondest memories here. But at some point the magic started to wear thin.
----
So now that my experience is laid bare, my advice:
If you're looking for brand new players, good luck. The truth is (and its clear from the MMO threads that you acknowledge this), NWN is a dying engine, and you'll be hard pressed to convince new players that they should run out and find an old copy of NWN to play. Especially considering the number of games coming out today and huge RPGs on the horizon, pulling people into the past is going to be near impossible. Obviously the intent to rectify this is part of the mentality of the MMO, but if the community bleeds dry before then, it hasn't done much good.
Obviously you'd want to pull from the players that are part of the hardcore RP side of the gaming industry. To do that, I'd recommend either advertising or building a presence on forums or boards dedicated to similiar interests (specifically the PnP style gaming that so many people have already cited). Additionally, making information about the Layonara setting and history available to a broader group could grip some of these gamers. Maybe by offering tid-bits from the Layonara in form of downloadable PDFs for tabletop gamers who are looking for an interesting and dynamic setting?
----
But truth be told, I think gathering new players will probably be a tremendously daunting task. Which brings me to why more effort should maybe be put on keeping current players or wooing back former players.
I was also one of those few players who never hit epic level. My highest level character was level 15, and he played in a time where level 15 was high. Then I watched as other players shot up in level past me, mostly due to the fact that they had more time to dedicate to quests than I did. As a result, the people I used to adventure with disappeared over the horizon as my character was stuck doing his usual grind. This was, in no small part, a factor for my leaving. I tried to make other characters work since, but I simply lost interest in playing in the same areas over and over. I've had some good experiences since then, but I mostly just ran off the nostalgia from older playthroughs. It may also be important to bear in mind that this was a rather tumultuous time in Layonara's life, since the MMO was being announced, a number of players and GMs were falling out with the larger community, and things were beginning to change at a rapid rate.
What could have kept me around? The ability to solo more places, or at least explore more places. The game naturally favors groups, and that makes sense. But for people who were on at odd times or were not at the same power level as those currently logged in, your options were really limited. To this day I swear that I have only explored (in character form) under 1/6th of what Layonara had to offer. To me, that was pretty sad. Especially because these areas required huge expeditions to work, ones that required oodles of time and only the cream of the crop could get on them since more would cause the server to crash. I understand. That's life. But it was still disappointing to know that, because I didn't have the same amount of time to play with everyone else, I wouldn't be able to see some of the more interesting things.
What keeps me from coming back is a mix of things. My last attempt to integrate into the community left a foul taste in my mouth. Yes, this was due to the CA process, and no, I'm not asking you to get rid of it. I don't know what's changed, but I really doubt that the CA process is the limiting factor here. The other major things are:
-Lack of players (not really helpful, I know)
-Lack of originality: Most of the things I would have easy access to if I played again I've either seen or seen a variation of it. I'll get bored and disheartened long before I have a character that I've become really attached to and has the strength to do truly new things for me.
-Better gaming outlets: As said before, NWN simply won't cut it. I can load up Skyrim if I just want to go somewhere and hack things to pieces.
-Viable RP alternatives: Instead of logging on to Layo for an RP fix, I can play in my semi-weekly PnP game for a somewhat substitutable experience. Granted, it isn't the same, but it functions as a substitute enough for me.
----
Anyway, I hope this is helpful in some way. If not, well... good luck?
3
« on: March 17, 2008, 08:39:03 pm »
I write tonight from the Scamp's Mug tavern, a hole of debauchery if I have ever seen one. The noise is likely to drive me insane before my stay in Hempstead is over, and I am almost thankful for the assignment I have for the day time, else this place may turn me into another drunken idiot like the others running around here.
Gylor has instructed me to focus on collecting and enchanting gemstones, although he has told me very little of what they are to be used for. The least I can do is to continue blindly following his instructions, and hope the rewards are worth it in the end, as they were promised. If him or any of his kin plan to betray or use me, then they will be instead be praying at my feet for forgiveness.
The gem work is mindless and boring, and I find myself cast across the nearby caverns using simple spells and tricks to destroy or scare away the inhabitants. The gem sources are scarce as well, and I feel it may take some time before I have acquired an adequate number of gemstones for enchantment. Enchanting was not one of my stronger subjects at the Academy, and while I do possess some skill, I am out of practice. Given sufficient time and resources I am sure Gylor will be fond of the work I present to him. Still, the scraping down of rocks and careful polishing is likely to drive me to insanity before any useful product is created.
However, this reminds me. As I was returning from the North with some collected gemstones, I overheard some soldiers at Fort Wayfare discussing what appears to have been a raid on a cult of some form. I cloaked myself in magical invisibility so they would speak more freely of the occurence, yet I still learned very little. From the officer's words, it sounds as if there is some occult magic at work, and summonings have been attempted. If this is true, it may be worth further investigation, if only so I may gain some more insight onto demon summonings. And who knows? Perhaps I may stumble upon some information linked to the "Brutuus."
Syyl, the imp granted to me by Ivan, has proven to havehis uses. I wonder about his stability, but he is entirely loyal and heeds my every word, seeking only to please. Of course, this has more to do with the stone I hold that binds his soul to me than any personal connection, of that I am sure, yet it is good to have an utterly loyal servant at my command. Already his magical abilities are growing, and he appears to be coming accustomed to life on this plane.
And yet another crash from the buffoons outside. Do they not have respect for those who seek peace during the night? I will have the innkeeper's ear in the morning, although he is likely among the drunks who insist on harrassing me.
4
« on: March 15, 2008, 11:05:19 pm »
I have neglected my writings, and for this I due apologize. In my later years when I will wish to gaze fondly at the accounts of my life and how I reached my poer, I will need to have a good and accurate reference. Yet times have been most interesting as of late, and I have been terribly busy.
A messenger arrived for me late one night about two months ago. He informed me I was needed at once at the Harbormaster's office in Hempstead, so I raced to get there as soon as I could. As it would turn out, Ilvich was in town and needed to speak with me. He informed me of some trouble his family had run into, and Gylor was now marked for death. He beckoned me to return to Lor with him and discuss things over with his father in greater detail.
We arrived and any fears I might have had were dismissed. Ivan was as calm as ever, and while Ilvich still appeared angry, I remembered I was dealing with a very competent man, despite his sons failures. As it would turn out, Gylor had made the mistake of crossing a smuggler who worked in Hempstead occasionally. Ka'tirem was his name, although he went by many other aliases throughout the seas. Gylor had made a bold move in trying to close him out of the Hempstead docks and set him up to be captured by the authorities, but the plan backfired quickly. Gylor was left for dead and was found floating the docks the next morning with three local officials.
Ivan is not a foolish man, and he decided that it would be better to remove all operations from Mistone for a time. Gylor was left time to recover, and the Hempstead properties were sold to a different company working for the Giiloni's. To keep me busy, Ivan has had me working as a liason between himself and his partners in Lor and the surrounding areas. It is simplistic work, and I grew tired of it quickly. But I was given a room temporarily at his estate and had all my expenses covered in the mean time.
Now that Gylor is recovered, we have been returned to Hempstead in the hopes of rebuilding and establishing a stronger prescence there. Also, I have been odered to listen for word on Ka'tirem's operations and report back to Gylor with any news. This is my new focus; I should not wish to dissappoint my master.
Oh, and another thing. I have heard the name "Brutuus" mentioned in a conversation Ivan had with his two sons one night. I sense this is perhaps Ivan's superior within the Forked Tongue, yet I cannot truly be sure. I shall make note of it and look into it further. Perhaps learning who this Brutuus is will assist me in the long run.
5
« on: July 19, 2007, 10:53:14 pm »
The acquistion of the Silverbow went quite smoothly. Captain Finistirre was hesitant, apparently distrusting of the ship's new owners, but when he saw that all the proper paperwork was in order, he became very quiet, and incredibly compliant. From there I was no longer needed to apply the "personal" touch to the Captain, and the crew was dismissed.
With the LeBlanc Estate and the Silverbow firmly in the hands of the Giilonni family, my assignment here in Hempstead has been completed. As Ivan requested, I personally met with his son, Gylor, upon his arrival within the city. He was a large man, far larger than his father. But his eyes were just as hollow and remorseless as his father, and it is very apparent that I am dealing with a dangerous man.
Gylor already shows that he is far smarter than his brother Ilvich, and he is capable of managing this business within Hempstead. Gylor had no assignments for me, and no word from Ivan for me. I was told to stay ready, should an assignment need completion. I should hope I will be above these menial tasks soon enough. For now I have some time to enter my alchemical and magical studies, as well as search for potential allies.
Hempstead is crawling with all sorts of adventurer types, so there is no shortage of "heroes" seeking to right the wrongs in the world. But many are naive, and if you point them in the right direction they will do whatver you desire of them. It may take time to earn their trust, but I will need companions in the long run, so the time will be well spent.
I have also travelled to Fort Vehl. Not a place I would care to spend my time; the odor is unpleasant and all forms of undesirables shuffle about the interior. As much as I feel that places such as these are in dire need or reformation, I must also recognize their uses. Coin can be traded for muscle in such places, and when the sellswords fall, few shed tears over these men, Most are convicts or have no families, no past, and no future; only the present to throw away. I shall make use of these people as I must and where I see fit.
The other territories seem rather plain and hold little interest to me. The lands I have seen are mostly fields, farms, and woods. Some appear dangerous, however, so i shall have to be careful when I stray out of town.
As for now, I shall have to wait for any word from Ivan or Gylor. I should like to meet again with Ivan, as I believe he still has an end of a bargain to fulfill, and it would greatly displease me if he tried to back out now.
6
« on: July 17, 2007, 07:40:50 pm »
So I will begin my writing in a new journal, a gift from master Ivan. I wonder of what it is he intends for me to do upon my arrival in Hempstead, and I wonder as to what need I will honestly be within the city. All the paperwork has been filed, all that needs to be done is actually having the property exchange hands.
Still, I feel as if my life is setting on the right course. So soon out of the Academy, and already I have prospects for a career. If Ivan follows his word, then I shall be a member fully fledged member of this "Forked Tongue," and the powers they have to offer me, if they are indeed as Ivan has promised, will be well worth all of this.
I do not see what inspired Ivan or Selvin to enter the shipping industry. This sailing is dreadful business, and I prefer solid ground any day of the week. I cannot wait to get off of this heaping pile of lumber and put my feet back on land where they indeed belong. And dealing with sailors is, as always, a bit of a nuisance. They lack the intelligence of even that of a farmer, and are brutish in their methods. Words cannot describe how pleased I will be when I am finished dealing with these imbeciles once and for all.
It sounds as if Ivan intends to hand over the new Port Hempstead portion of his business to his eldest son, Gylor. I have yet to meet this son, but if he is anything like Ilvich than I best be careful; he will be dangerous at the very least. With any luck he will be reasonable enough to allow me some control of the trade in Hempstead. Ivan informed me that Gylor will relieve me of my duty in Hempstead when he arrives, and from there I am to take orders from him. I pray his is not a complete idiot.
*there are a few scribbles at the end of that sentance*
It would seem we have hit some rough waters. I feel I must lie down for now. I cannot wait to be rid of this blasted ship.
7
« on: February 22, 2007, 03:04:48 pm »
Like miltonyorkcatle has said, people have searched for them, its just very not easy to find them. The thing about legends is that they are just that, legendary. They would not be easy to find, if possible at all. But hey, its worth a shot anyway to look if you really want it. If your character wants it, they should by all means look... and if they come up shorthanded, at least the ride is entertaining!
8
« on: December 30, 2006, 07:28:14 pm »
Hey, good to hear you're doing alright, and congrats on all that!
9
« on: December 28, 2006, 08:37:57 am »
Happy Birthday! Eat plenty o' cake!
10
« on: December 21, 2006, 05:00:59 pm »
**The door to 109 Hlint bursts open again, and slowly in walks an older, more mature figure. His red armor is no stranger within this house, yet it has not been seen in a few years. The town is different, yet the same. A lot has changed, yet the people continue on as they have always. The man collapses to the bed in his room, removes the plates on his armor, and simply lies there. The air is cold on his flesh, but the feeling of cold is different for him. He has felt cold, and no more does a simple chill bother him.**
It has been sometime since I have seen the walls of Hlint, the walls I once called home and sought protection and shelter within. It's interesting... I can hardly recall my first steps within these walls. I hardly remember that day. The blood-soaked armor, my broken sword, and the wounds I still carry today. The start of a fight I still fight, and the reason for my retreat to the mountains...
Rumors had begun to surface about the Crimson Blades, a sign that something was wrong with them. After all, the secrecy they used was key to their success in their plans. These rumors still remained vague, with few names and places mentioned. But nonetheless, they were a start.
Despite what others had promised me, I knew that I was alone in this search to face Tyde and the others. The battle was mine, and mine alone. I vowed that I would defeat him, and I would not fully rest until I did so. Perhaps that sounds bloodthirsty, perhaps a childish goal. But he is my opponent, and I will defeat him.
As strange as it seems though, it was not rumors of the Crimson Blades or Tyde that lead me out of the towns and into the mountains. In fact, I had heard talk of a man named Iric Corvalant... a name I had become familiar with.
Iric was a favorite of Tyde... or at least he was until I came along. Iric had no kindness in his heart. He would kill any and all who stood in his way. He kept mostly to himself, but it was only through chance I had once heard him brag about his family background, that his father was a prominent slaver working out of Saudiria. I later learned that the slave industry his father ran had been broken up and destroyed in a slave revolt. This was likely his reason for signing on with the Blades. He had connections with the slavers, and he had the killer instinct to fight like a true Blade.
Iric was apparently still sing his old influence to get things though. It was again by chance I had overheard something in Saudiria about the old Corvalant kid coming and making large orders of goods to be delivered to Dalanthar. Curious, I took a look into this myself. I found that Iric was, indeed, moving goods through the mountains near Dalanthar, not far from the Great Rift itself.
I set up a camp for myself within the mountains. I could not bring others with me; I did not wish to endanger those that I cared for. Already I had created a living hell for others without my meaning to; I refused to allow that to happen again. My hope was to monitor what Iric was doing and perhaps perpare a good ambush to catch him off guard and learn Tyde's location, in hopes that this feud could end once and for all.
I withstood the weather and survived the wildlife for those few years. And while the summer was perhaps tolerable, the winters were brutal and many times I considered leaving my course and allowing Iric to get away. But I held my ground, and dealt with the harsh storms and bitter cold of the winter. I wanted to end it so bad, I could taste it.
After what must have been three years of cold, storms, and eating the few plants and animals I could find, a great storm hit the mountains. The snow was piled high, and I found many of the old passes were now blocked. Iric's trail was gone, and I was left in the freezing cold. Defeated, I returned to Dalanthar.
The townsfolk said I looked dead... and perhaps I did. I cleaned myself up and set back towards that place where this had all began. I needed a fresh start. So again, my training starts, and my hunt enters its next chapter. Perhaps I am no closer than before, but my determination, my spirit, and my hope remains as strong as ever. And when the moment comes, that is what will make the difference. If Tyde is not yet scared, then perhaps he should be...
**Jet rolls over on his side, glancing briefly at his red plate armor, and then at his sword... the soft red glow illuminated the room. Perhaps a day would come where that armor would be a memory, and not a promise to himself. Perhaps Jet would prove himself to be the warrior that Tyde had tried to build him to be, yet he would be the man Vivian, Ireth, Rose, Derrick, and so many others had taught to be. Again, Jet rolled over, but this time with a different intention. Jet closed his eyes, and for the first itme in three years slept in his own home again.**
11
« on: November 29, 2006, 03:27:26 pm »
Nooooo! Life without the internet must be terrible.. how did we ever survive before it, heh 
12
« on: November 28, 2006, 05:02:15 pm »
I gotta go with cake for my own personal reasons... hehe.
13
« on: November 28, 2006, 05:00:36 pm »
Heya! happy birthday man! Enjoy the cake, alright?
14
« on: November 28, 2006, 04:59:37 pm »
I had to work those days. Lets just say, i showed up 2 hours after opening, and almost ALL our sale items were gone. It was insane.
15
« on: November 26, 2006, 03:59:11 pm »
Happy birthday! Eat lotsa cake for the rest of us! 
16
« on: November 03, 2006, 08:25:26 pm »
Gender: Male
Age: 17
Height: 5' 8"
Weight: 140 lbs.
Possibly?
17
« on: October 23, 2006, 02:01:23 pm »
Happy birthday! Eat plenty of cake!
18
« on: October 15, 2006, 02:48:34 pm »
Charisma is the couter-point to Wisdom. Whereas the latter is about force of will focused inward on one's self, Charisma is about the ability to impose one's will on others I really like how that is said. Like with the alignment guide, a very nice job Faldred.
19
« on: October 14, 2006, 08:47:35 am »
Haha... I actually hada bad experience in Boston using public transportation, we're me and my friends got lost and didn't end up getting home until about 1 in the morning. I imagine if you're used to using it though its great. And yeah, driving around here can be very scary
20
« on: October 14, 2006, 06:29:40 am »
Ugh... I dont want to hear about snow. Driving around Boston is bad enough, and this will be my first winter with my license. I imagine things will be interesting.
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