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Messages - Chongo
Pages: 1 ... 3 4 [5] 6 7 ... 49
81
« on: June 24, 2011, 04:15:36 pm »
I can likely be around for something. Don't think there are any major plans being made for me as of yet.
1030 EST sound decent Milt?
82
« on: June 21, 2011, 02:48:07 pm »
But after playing and developing other games/ servers and seeing their systems... I really wish caster spells were 1) on individual spell timers instead of rest cycles, and 2) single target hits especially in the case of death and disabling spells. Devestating Critical as a per/day would function better as a duration effect - you get the benefits of the feat for a certain duration, a certain number of times per day. That would necessitate lower entry requirements, though. Agreed. And henceforth it shall be known as Dragon Age.
83
« on: June 20, 2011, 12:10:33 pm »
Rael outskirts.
84
« on: June 20, 2011, 11:49:11 am »
Thanks for coming folks. Sorry if it got a bit rushed towards the end... I was passing out. Forgot how long that run is.
85
« on: June 20, 2011, 11:44:31 am »
I've often made characters that would come into their glory by the time they reach level 25 but I get to level 8 and think.."god this is boring", and hence delete them.
Right there with ya. As glorious as that cleric with dev crit would be after a handful of great wisdoms to get the casting up to speed by the late 20's and finally getting that dev crit at level 39.... it's a lot more fun to actually function for the first two years of playing. The only thing I think is unbalanced is having PWK giving will saves as this is relatively easy to get and most things have a crappy will save.
This isn't accurate.
86
« on: June 19, 2011, 03:46:48 pm »
the reinforcement of the borders by Molvaren. On the bright side, at least it's NPC's I've known in the plot still. Might not be that hard to catch on after all. Miritrix, 11 pm EST. Right now I'm edging towards Rael or the chasm. The group can pick.
87
« on: June 19, 2011, 03:39:10 pm »
Thanks Dorg - good to know. And a pity. Keeping it closed for a good while I suppose given the anticipated importance/pace of that plot? Guess I've missed a few things in the past two years.
Well folks... that's my favorite on the server - but the others I'd throw out there are below Khalziras, Rael maybe, Le'tennodin if we're up for dying, chasm? - that might be fun and group friendly, crags would be fun but short, heck, I don't know. I'm up for suggestions.
Right now I'll say change the meeting place to Miritrix.
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« on: June 19, 2011, 01:58:37 pm »
I miss your musk.
89
« on: June 16, 2011, 08:32:35 pm »
90
« on: June 16, 2011, 11:49:41 am »
I would also wager that there are other creatures in Layo that have been amped to be immune to critical hits. Like say Dragons? I actually rarely made things crit or sneak attack immune. Pretty exceptional cases when trying to promote a variable group with reverse balance logic. Not sure if anyone ever noticed the number of DnD standard crit immune that just weren't. Can't speak for the other builders though. I also think the requirement of 30 Strength is a bit absurd. What other feats require a 30 ability? Dragon Shape? Not to start another comparison of feats, but in my opinion Dragon Shape blows away Dev Crit as far as it's effectiveness in Layo. I'd personally take a dev critter over a dragon shape most days of the week. Not to say dragon shape isn't fun and neat, but effectiveness? You're speaking more of the class backing it than the feat. I can make a melee druid with dev crit and we can have them compare results if you like. I'll admit it'd probably go in favor of the dragon since it's so easy to max out spell power with... just saying. Dev crit is not so powerful when you frame it around the normal builds and group play.
Furthermore we keep looking at dev crit in its max mode. Meaning that as Chongo said "the irony of the dev crit requirement to me has always been that the requirement itself lends itself to a more powerful outcome, which railroads it to more gimpy DC builds". We should look at how "powerful" it would be if the pre req was 27 STR and the melee build was not fully optimized. Yeah... when I said that I meant more that it should require something like 2 applicable epic skill focus feats, all the initiative feats, epic prowess, thug, improved power attack, etc etc. Disclaimer: I don't actually recommend these feats, I'm just pointing out semi-extraneous ones. Not just to change the STR requirement. Heck, you could eliminate the STR requirement altogether and put up 8 feat reqs that make sense, and don't just add to balance irony. Lastly putting dev crit within reach of more PCs is not going to create a storm of additional soloers. Melee PCs still need caster buffs to survive most fights. You're confusing melee with caster/ non-caster. It's exceptionally easy to make a dev critting caster. So... it shouldn't be part of the argument. I'm all for dev crit changing. So don't get me wrong. It just seems this server is mostly ignorant of what can be done with it, and what will be done with it. The tit for tat balance arguments are just all over the place and show that folks honestly just aren't that aware of the feat. And it should never cite the current PC examples, change for current PC examples, nor assume it will maintain a low balance average. And it shouldn't just be peeled back a bit on the str requirement. It should either change in how it functions (I made it a flat crit damage bonus on my old old unsuccessful server), or require a broader, less streamlined set of feat requirements. Anyhow - I don't mean to argue it, just think it takes several steps back to fix it, not just a half step.
91
« on: June 15, 2011, 04:54:11 pm »
Good points Chongo. I think the biggest issue in regard to balance is that because of the need to balance for groups, the focus is generally on hitpoints and not so much on AC. Even at the high end, creatures are generally easy to hit but take a lot of damage before they fall.
It's just a lot easier and more practical to balance encounters with adding hitpoints and damage reduction, than it is with AC.
That is why mass death spells or dev. critical are so powerful. The amount of hitpoints on a creature becomes meaningless. I will fully admit that I have always had a tendency to raise HP instead of AC. And its exactly as you said - group balance, prolonging the battle. You'll find a large percentage of the epic creatures on Layo have artificially inflated HP/ DR, while still being fairly easy to hit for the average player at that CR - in fact, I'd guess in most cases a good 5 levels lower. And... this might be faulty. You're absolutely right in regard to increasing effectiveness of instant death, in any form. I dunno - same could be said of AC. HP/ DR always seemed to help out the underdog more, as hitting the AC increase track balances to maximized player builds moreso then HP/DR. Dunno .. the game just gets *so* easy at same-CR when its in a group. And with the emphasis on group over solo, you can't translate the arguments between them. ....except with mages due to mass death spells. People see this, and it's an exception to group vs. solo balance. And so the attempt, right or wrong, is made to translate solo melee to the same exception. But it's wrapping one's head around an exception instead of the intention. That said, I empathize and still feel bad that it is the way it is. When Orth and I were reworking spells (read: he did all the real work), the ending thought was to not take away from anyone in the changes. While the contention was made to change mass death to single-hitters or something like d4 + additional effect, it was decided to not take away anything from anyone, and try to just give instead. This is a bit of a derail... but the goal is to show how its easy to wrap ones head around an exception and raise the bar elsewhere to match it. But its not the intended balance, and dev crit being easier to attain certainly should be. That said, the irony of the dev crit requirement to me has always been that the requirement itself lends itself to a more powerful outcome, which railroads it to more gimpy DC builds. I believe this was discussed several times, and certainly during the feat/ spell rework. I just don't think it made the cut.
92
« on: June 15, 2011, 01:32:16 pm »
Ima gonna back this up and try to answer the stat tit for tat... and the mass death vs. dev crit question.
Actually managed to remember the game again fairly quickly, which is nice. So with hope I'm still on the mark with everything.
I had to sink quite a bit into getting my main PC's casting stat to a base of 36. I'm going to use mine as it is fairly generic for a caster getting to a high DC. And I actually appreciate where rizz is coming from on hitting that base 30 without compromising a lot for what would effectively be, in both cases, the DC stat. At the same time, towards the end, I had room for all sorts of extras, in all the 'extraneous' I picked up were 2 spf/gspf/espf's, two metamagics, smd, 2 eschews, an epic spell, and even 3 toughness feats. So it's not actually a 100% chance of being a one trick pony. If hitting that stat were a true one trick pony scenario, as in focus on DC kill, I'd lose all those extras save for 1 spf/gspf/espf progression. Which is 11 feats. Which is pretty darn flexible for any direction of roleplay.
Now, I know Wren's build, but I don't know what stat spread he began with. My PC's spread is fairly obvious, a dump str, then a 10/16/12/10. So... a semi-clear spread for maxing the DC stat. Wren was maybe more like Ketil in going for a str/dex/con/pseudo-int or wis stat spread... which is hard. Really hard. And I do sympathize with the lack of great strength feats being inherent to ftr bonuses. If it were the same for great charisma and sorcerors... then yeah! - it would've been more tricky figuring out the progression. That said, 8 great cha's to hit 36, and 11 'extras'. Subtract the pre epic 'extras' and you're left with 5 'extras' in the epics... which would have made that 30 mark more challenging for certain, but certainly plenty attainable.
So... I get both sides of that argument. But here's the dev crit argument:
Versus mass kill spells that is. Yeah, I don't like mass kills. Yeah, I have a 43 dc'er so I'm a hippocrit. But after playing and developing other games/ servers and seeing their systems... I really wish caster spells were 1) on individual spell timers instead of rest cycles, and 2) single target hits especially in the case of death and disabling spells.
But here's where it's tricky on dev crit. I have 9 mass-death spells on rest. I can hit plenty of mobs and rack up the killings, but it's very finite. Also, the server has been balanced to show a fair spread of 1) TS creatures for weird, 2) Death immunity for wail, 3) SR or spell school immunity for both, and 4) base saving throw inherent immunity.
Only #4 is applicable on dev crit unless something was changed in the mechanics. Additionally, while it's impressive to take out 20 creatures in a single mass-death spell... the average optimized hasted dual wielding dev critter is going to have 7 DC 40-44 attempts per spell casting round. Anything that's not fixed at the aforementioned #4 is going to die. Someone smarter can show the math. Also, what pibe is saying on not hitting higher level creatures, even at dc 43, most of the CR 35 and up crowd is off limits. And I only have 9 chances. A dev critter is still going to grab those during an ordinary melee encounter, with upwards of 30 chances for the high HP critters (which most are tweaked to be without a CON/ fort increase). And with a few regen ears and heal kits... you can keep going and going.
Now, I understand both ends of this, but I'd also say that it's easy to personalize the argument to one's own PC. In fact, rizz likely did when he read that last sentence with the 'going and going', since at the same CR the survivability and lack of spells makes it somewhat unapplicable. But... switch the build. Change it to a 12/5/23 monk fighter cleric who happened to manage kukri dual wielding RP. A bit of an awkward build stretch scenario for sure I'll admit.
It's easy to point out mages and sorcerors because there are so many of them. And it's because they're easy to play, the whole way through. And from level 15 to 30 they are at a huge mechanical advantage towards progression. Even if they have no optimization whatsoever, they're still just kinda laid back in variable survivability. Meanwhile pure melees are left with an easy time from 1-12, then usually suicide missions (comparatively) from level 16 on up. But... that's not the argument. The argument is regarding a feat. Which is applicable across a huge spectrum of builds and classes. And yes - I'm happy to show what the server looks like in the hands of an optimized dev critter if a DM wants me to run a test build through the hardest areas of the server solo - and it's a world apart from some optimized mage.
But I feel your pain bud. The baseline mechanics have a whole lot of things that just make it overly hard with certain aspects of development, and as much development that has been done by the 20 gallon brains like orth on giving perks to underdogs... it's still working with a DnD baseline that's just poorly thought out regarding an online video game community balance.
Woo... still wordy as ever. Sorry.
93
« on: June 15, 2011, 12:16:57 pm »
Should be there tonight folks - feeling better. Got 10 hours of sleep... so that certainly helped. A rare thing when the wife is gone for the week and I'm left with the 3 year old and 1 year old. Woo! Luckily they're awesome, and the 1 year old basically sits around like Jabba, only smiling all the time. Almost as many chins too!
94
« on: June 14, 2011, 09:02:07 pm »
Folks, sorry but I'm not feeling that well tonight. Won't be able to make it. Go on without me, there are plenty of options down there for another adventure.
95
« on: June 13, 2011, 04:11:35 pm »
I guess to be more clear, my question is does Layonara cap the ability score at 42, or can player get it over 42? Can someone confirm this?
And I do not mean transforming or shapechanging. I mean regular PC, with base score + items + ability boose spells (such as strength, dex, etc etc etc). I'll second Aerimor on that. You can. I know of at least one PC who runs around with a 48 stat, just natural + items. 
96
« on: June 13, 2011, 02:52:17 am »
Great time so far folks, wild to see that many folks there. Leisurely start tomorrow. Our expedition cook needs to come through on pies all around!
It *should* be a slightly shorter session tomorrow, so for the stragglers - get to the camp at a safe pace. We'll be hanging out. Again *coughs* the expedition cook is surely planning to blow our hair back with a veritable cornucopia of food and spirits.
:p
If you had to log early, keep up communication so we can figure out how to link everyone up.
97
« on: June 12, 2011, 10:12:50 pm »
Starting now...!
98
« on: June 12, 2011, 04:12:08 pm »
http://forums.layonara.com/calendar.php?do=getinfo&e=17939&day=2011-6-12Event details. Sign on up. We'll adapt plans as necessary given group size and strength. If I'm a couple minutes late it's cause I'm running solo with the kids this week and the start time is right around their bedtime. There will be numerous options with people having issues being locked down in one spot for multiple days, or not thinking they're high enough level to survive, worrying about having to log off earlier, or any real concern. Show up, be comfortably motivated, and don't worry - we'll make it work. There will be something for everyone who wants to participate. And... as always, bring your best IC and a good group attitude.
99
« on: June 12, 2011, 02:00:44 am »
~trace fps It's annoying after a while. I still don't know how to make it go away without reloading.
100
« on: June 11, 2011, 05:13:07 pm »
Didn't think it was open to clerics or druids. Typo?
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