Feedback on new PC quest systems

[Pen N Popper]

These are some notes from initial testing...
  Buried Treasure
[list=1]

• Chests may be buried inside or out. This is plausable, I think, for hiding things under a bed or in other static non-usable placeables. Great stuff there.
• Players should be careful to have only one buried treasure map in their inventory. When one is used, they are all removed from inventory. This means as a player questor, you should put your treasure maps into your home chest persistent storage if you wish to have multiple outstanding quests. (Note that I didn't test storage of them in this manner.
• There is an issue when multiple chests are buried in the same map area by different players. Player A buries chest A, player B buries chest B, both in the same map area. If chest A is dug up first, chest B's location will now be set to chest A's location. If chest B is dug up first, chest A's position remains where it was buried originally. Basically what this means is this: Bury chests only in areas that you are relatively confident that there are no other chests.
• Parchments cannot be stored in the chest; they will disappear. Coins and other objects were tested successfully.
• Leanthar indicated on IRC that enchanted weapons will lose their enchantments if buried. These chests should be treated the same as oxen bags.

 Quest Creation Scrolls
[list=1]

• Chests are labeled with the PC creator's name, a nice feature. Inside is a piece of parchment with the PC creator's name on it. Think of this as the proof that the chest was visited by whoever you send on the quest.
• The NPCs created are indestructable. Hostile creatures will not attack them.
• The Quest Creation Scroll objects do not disappear from inventory when used.

 Suggestions
[list=1]

• It would be nice if the NPCs created had single-shot conversations that gave the talking PC the same parchment as in the quest chests. Perhaps another conversation choice to make the NPC vanish.
• Perhaps the buried treasure could also have a parchment with the PC's name on it as well. Again, this could be used as proof of visiting the site.
• Being able to store parchments with writing would be a huge plus for information gathering quests.

 Overall this system performed admirably, was simple to use, and offers limitless potential for creative quests.

[Weeblie]

Pen N Popper - 9/15/2006  5:11 PM

There is an issue when multiple chests are buried in the same map area by different players.  Player A buries chest A, player B buries chest B, both in the same map area.  If chest A is dug up first, chest B's location will now be set to chest A's location.  If chest B is dug up first, chest A's position remains where it was buried originally.  Basically what this means is this:  Bury chests only in areas that you are relatively confident that there are no other chests.

Clarification on this bug...

What I noticed was that the position of the chests seems to always be of the last chest "placed but not dug up".

Example:

Say you have buried chest cA and chest cB and position pA and pB. Both map mA and mB will point at pB then.

So, if someone digs up cB first (at pB), mA will start to point at pA and it's all okay.

But, if you try to dig up cA first, you have to go to where the map points, i.e. pB and not pA.

Only a minor flaw I think... The chance for two persons to bury chests in the same area isn't all that great and even if that happens... Well, no content is lost and the chests are still in the same area after all.

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Overall impression: Great and funny new toy!

[jrizz]

I really like the new quest systems. Can we add a conversation to the NPC ( have not tried it out yet but this would be great) with that a PC quest could be set up with a series of NPC's giving hints. Using different langs for the NPCs would be soooo cool.

The NPC/Chest system worries me. It seems like just another thing that will need to be watched closely by the DMs. Useing the NPC system and the buried treasue are more then enough for a PC quest.
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[SquareKnot]

Just a few thoughts from my testing. Is there any way to remove the NPC's once created, other than a server reset? If not, then I second the idea above about a dialog option to remove them. Also, it would be nice to have an option to create both male and female NPCs. I know this starts down a slippery slope (female, then what about elves, and dwarves, and NPC's wearing red cloaks and and and).

Also, as suggested, some way of chaining the buried chests would be nice. By that, I mean creating a quest to get chest A, which in turn directs the player to chest B. I can't think of a way to do that.

Overall, it is very cool. I'm working on ideas for using this system with my next Orienteering quest.

Thanks for all the work that went into this.

[Weeblie]

SquareKnot - 9/16/2006  12:32 PM

Is there any way to remove the NPC's once created, other than a server reset?

From IRC: (16:44:16) (@Dorganath) not at the moment, no. Unless a GM is online.

[Talan Va'lash]

Putting conversations on the NPCs is a difficult thing, as there isn't an easy way for the PC to specify what they want them to say, and it would be hard to make a generic conversation that wouldn't be mostly irrelevant.

hmm, it would acctually be possible and not incredibly difficult to let PCs specify a one line conversation to place on the NPC (Dorg: using a cusom token(s) and a listener in a fashion similar to how the really old mailbox system worked.) Though there would be no good way to create a structured convo dynamically IG. by structured I mean:

NPC Greeting
 - PC response(s)
 - - NPC response
 - - - PC response(s)

As there would not be a good way to handle multiple pc responses, or conversation flow at all. It might be possible to do structured convos in some limited fashion if a sufficiently clever individual really wanted to put some thought into it... but nothing is coming to my mind immediately as to how to do this, and my creative juices are otherwise occupied at the moment.

But one line conversations i.e. you click on the PC and their one response appears over their head would be definitely possible. Using this and multiple NPCs you would definitely be able to place them about and have each one tell where the next one is creating a sort of scavenger hunt.

Also NPCs could be created to give a certain item.. or to give one response if you don't have x item and a different one if you do (and then take that item or something) but especially these types of things increase the complexity of the player interface with the system by a lot.

[Dorganath]

Most likely, since that particular system has a chest and NPC component, we could link the two, so that one would place the chest, place the NPC and the NPC would say nothing more than, "Bring me the contents of the chest"....perhaps even linking in an area name. Custom (player specified) strings could be done pretty easily (I made a similar system about a year ago for placeables that could be configured to speak a description given by a GM), but the question remains as to whether we want to go that route. When the item in the chest (just a blank scroll) is returned, the NPC could say "Thanks" and take the item back.
  My guess is this will evolve over time. The chances of complex, multi-tiered conversations is pretty slim...but you never know!
  A conversation for the placer of the NPC to destroy the NPC is no problem and will likely be added with the next update.
  Good input all. Keep it coming.

[Pen N Popper]

I'll post a few ideas for the NPC quest. Note that I don't consider any of these required, just some thoughts.
[list=1]

• Provide choice for placing male/female and various races.
• Provide "map" when NPC is placed. Having possession of the map allows the placing PC to barter with the NPC and place up to three items into their inventory. Talking to the NPC later provides choice to get items in return when map is possessed.
• Perhaps allow these NPCs to become henchman. This way they could be "rescued" from dangerous situations.

[Dorganath]

Pen N Popper - 9/17/2006  1:28 PM
  3. Perhaps allow these NPCs to become henchman.  This way they could be "rescued" from dangerous situations.

 I'm pretty sure this won't happen. Too many potential problems including henchman AI that will have them auto-attacking enemies on sight (kind of defeats the point of a rescue) and potential for abuse by people who throw them to the wolves to escape.
  Remember this is primarily for RP, and as such, we should not want to get too far into mechanics that will needlessly complicate things and cause additional problems.
  The other suggestions are worth considering.

[Dorganath]

Update for you all...
  With the next update, coming as soon as I can do it, the following changes will be made to the buried treasure system:
  1) You will be able to have more than one buried treasure map in your inventory.  Each one will function independently, and you can even have more than one chest buried in the same area.  They will not conflict with each other.
  2) You will be able to place a buried treasure map within a buried chest, allowing for multi-point treasure seeking quests.  It's up to you to keep track of which map is which, however.
  3) You will be able to place parchments that have been written upon using the quill system into a buried treasure chest, and the writing will persist.
  I can hear the wheels turning already!  

[SquareKnot]

Thank you. That was pretty much everything I wanted.

* stops doing the happy dance just long enough to post *

And oh yes, the wheels they are a-turning.

[Pen N Popper]

Hooray!

[Leanthar]

Nice Dorganath!

[CHAzz]

hmmm

orienteering courses for budding Rangers
Geocacheing (sort of)

[Pen N Popper]

Suggestion:  Make the buried treasure maps writable with the object editing system (like bags currently are).