Death and those graves!

[Walnutboy]

I'm curious to know how others roleplay the appearence of gravestones for fallen adventurers round the world, not to mention how you deal with coming back from the dead and seeking help to regain your true self!

I have encountered two things lately and its just plain confusing at times. First time someone told me ICly that we had to bring my soul (me after death) back to my body (the grave site) so that i could be whole again... this angle i liked and went along with. The second time i figured i would roleplay the same idea, indicating that i was looking for the creature that took the fleshy part of my being away from me... and this kind of went down like a lead balloon!

In the course to roleplaying all this one thing struck me as odd, no one either new to the world or old seemed to care ICly about the fact you died and a gravestone appeared and yet everyone pretty much ICly accepted that 'theres your stone' after you die and return.

Icly my character asked the question about who plants the stones after someone dies... everyone ICly seemed perplexed not only as to who but as to why i asked. There were no OOC comments about 'its really an OOC thing' and indeed everyone seemed to acknowledge its IC presence!

I searched the forums for something specific about this but came up empty handed, i am either looking in the wrong places or there isn't a discussion about the roleplay of the stones as an IC item or the fact you have to return to it in order to be 'whole'.

The idea of whole soul strands thing i guess is like the thread of life, it winds out from birth to old age to natural death, but this line can be cut far sooner should you tempt fate too often. Should you choose then the theory holds that if you never die or your character never ventures into the wilds then he or she will live on for the whole of that races life span and die a natural death. (barring other illness and assassination)

How do people seek to roleplay all of this, the graves, dying and the eventual soul strands? ICly my character is curious to know who erects the graves though OOCly i have a concern. If things are a result of 'the gods' then doesn't this serve to make harder the roleplay of those characters who seek to distance themselves from religion for IC reasons.

Perhaps the model is meant to be more like Greek myth, the Gods are there and at times either do horrible things to the masses for this own amusement or they seek to inspire through little deeds without recognition.

What are the views of others though more interestingly, the Admin, GMs.... and ultimately world creator.

Wb.

[Interia_Discordius]

In a discussion based off of the moveable corpses...Quoting Gulnyr here.

"Bodies are nice, but wouldn't a body left behind alter things a lot? I mean, if there is a body to return to, then isn't the person walking around a ghost or a bodiless soul or whatever? If that's the new deal, that's fine, but there need to be extra changes to make it make sense. There's no way a soul is wearing armor and swinging a sword, for example. Respawned characters can do that now because they aren't just souls but have actual bodies that aren't left behind. *shakes a fist at glowing, translucent body effects*

The gravestones, while kind of strange, are just a marker. They could be banners or glowing lights or anything. I try to think of them as an OOC thing, so I may check them because I'm curious but try not to discuss them IC. What matters is that they mark a location that has psychological importance for the character. I imagine being resurrected and rebuilt by magical stones isn't exactly a wonderful experience, which is why characters are so drained afterward. But they have a choice of passively waiting to recover or seizing the bull by the horns and facing the journey, returning exactly to their place of death, conquering the inner pain by force of will, and putting it all behind them. "You'll feel better if you do something about it."

This doesn't have anything to do with bodies being movable, exactly, except that moving a body to a new location to be recovered would make people actually into ghosts (since no one has two bodies, and if you have a new body you don't need the old one, especially if you still have all your stuff) and that it kind of removes the "psychological struggle" aspect (which may just be me, anyway, heh)."

[Interia_Discordius]

Aaaand posted by Acacea.

"Quote:
Originally Posted by Gulnyr  
Bodies are nice, but wouldn't a body left behind alter things a lot? I mean, if there is a body to return to, then isn't the person walking around a ghost or a bodiless soul or whatever?

No. There is already a body left behind, you just can't see it. Presumably it is eaten or something by trolls, who knows.

At the moment of your death, your soul is pulled away from your lifeless corpse and returns to where it is tethered, where your body is made anew. So technically your dead one is still there, anyway.

Edit - I don't disagree with the rest of your post, including the whole purpose of returning to the site of death. Though in my opinion, facing one's own dead body is kind of scarring, but that might just be me.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Joyrock  
It can use the bind system, we used your starting location or you bind spot, and players had the option of binding themselves to any safe location. be it there house, a inn, so we had it working pretty good on the bind location part. So it works very well with bind locations.

I wasn't saying it couldn't be used with it, just that there are always some things to consider and factor into how something is done.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Weeblie  
Respawning + Praying at Moveable Corpse has the negative effect of... pranks... *Coughs.*

"Lesse... a dead body on the ground... lets... hide it! *Laughs and does just that.*"

In all the places I've seen the corpses, you can also choose to burn it as well, preventing them from being raised. So...*Shrugs* In character. Not saying it would be added, just that I'm not sure it's considered a horrible downside as far as in-character actions go."

[lonnarin]

I always thought that the bindstones just used pure ressurection on you, a form of raise dead that in PnP doesn't require any physical remains in order to work.  In that case, there would both be the old dead body left where the gravestone is, and a new, weaker body inhabited by the soul of the fallen character.  That new body could grow as strong as the old one in time, or quicker should it be reunited with the old dead one.  How exactly THAT is done, I'm not certain.  Perhaps dead characters cannibalize themselves, adding new meaning to the phrase "you are what you eat".

[Walnutboy]

With regards ghosts or spirits it depends on the belief you subscribe to. Most ghost experts tend to be of the opinion that when you die everything that is with you/on you is there in ghost form as a kind of 'mental' imprint. Having your things isn't really the question as ghosts are not naked unless they die naked, then they appear in the state at which they died. The question then is would they be able to physically interact with the world?

But this is perhaps part of another, more deeper discussion!

Wb.

[Interia_Discordius]

I know I've seen a couple of discussions, but due to my 10 or less hours of total sleep in the last 72 hours, I can't be compelled enough to do a search on it. Looking for gravestone, grave, OOC, or similar key words might get you somewhere...It's how I found the moveable corpses thing, after all.

I just remember a full thread devoted to the discussion of the ever elusive of explanation gravestones.

[Laldiien]

I have always been of the belief that when you die, (and are not raised) your body & soul are whisked to the bindstone, where you are reconstituted, soul, body and gear.  Reasoning, if it were just your spirit, you would have no substance.  No substance, no gear, no form, just a mental reflection.  Since you can kill, die & risk a soul thread while 'dead', you are complete, just weakened.  The grave stone is an OOC marker, so I don't comment IC if I see one.  The place of my death is personal to me, and I return there to pray (recover) to put the trauma behind me.

If I choose not to recover, I walk about with the aura, but again, that is an OOC indicator, so I try not to comment on it if I see it on someone else.  If it's a friend, I'll make a vague reference to them not looking their usual perky self or something as an excuse to RP the story & location of their death.

*shrugs*

[Stephen_Zuckerman]

Allow me to just put in what I think of the whole deal.

Upon death, your body (or what pieces are left) are yanked to your bind point, restored, and you're raised, with your soul being pulled back to get shoved into the newly-fixed body.

Where you died, the Bindstones erect a marker... The Gravestone. You can either sit around reflecting on your recent death, or return to the spot you died at to absorb all of that reflection at once.

Soul strands? Those are what make the Bindstones WORK. They're what the Bindstones pull you back from death with. The Soul Mother, though, is a hungry wench, and cuts the things whenever she can. When you don't have any Strands left, the next time you die, that's that.

[Acacea]

It would cover a logic hole in the current writeup to say that your body comes with you, as at the moment it says that it is the souls that travel the bindstones, and new bodies are made...dunno where your gear goes in that incarnation. Whichever version you pick (diced remains are sucked into the bindstone subway system and spat back out, or left there for dead, your soul snatched away and a new body made to your last impression of self or whatever), no one is a bodiless spirit upon exiting the bindstones.

Of course bringing the body answers the gear, but the curious will always find more questions...what if you are missing limbs! Do you get scars? What about old scars? Is there a time limit? Fountain of youth?  

As for soul strands, the term is binding one's soul for a reason...consider it as tethering your soul to a point, like a rope, and having the strands that hold it there fray...one by one taken by the Soul Mother (well, technically, the Harvester I guess...*), until it snaps entirely and you are no more bound to this world.

* I imagine him as a little gnome with a sharp stick, hopping up and down and sawing at the soul-rope wrapped around the out-of-reach bindstone until he gets a piece, then running away gleefully and taking it to the Soul Mother... I know, not exactly accurate, but it keeps me amused.

[Stephen_Zuckerman]

Missing limbs, scars... Any wounds that have already healed will not be fixed when the Bindstones regenerate you, but those that are still unhealed will be.

As to whether you could cut off the end of a stump to make the limb grow back, I'm not sure. Try it.

[Walnutboy]

* I imagine him as a little gnome with a sharp stick, hopping up and down and sawing at the soul-rope wrapped around the out-of-reach bindstone until he gets a piece, then running away gleefully and taking it to the Soul Mother... I know, not exactly accurate, but it keeps me amused.

Now you see, i like the Greek style visual more... two eldery ladies with a spinning wheel, the thread of life running from it and to a weaving tapestry of the world, your life being only one part of it. (Many strands from all the characters go into the tapestry) So long as your strand remains whole and the wheel spinning your life continues. At times the wheel sticks and your life takes a turn for the worst and the old ladies step in to fix it... but they only do this for so long.

After a time these ladies grow tired of dealing with your constant interference of their grand plan plan for the world and cut your strand, severing you from this world until such time as they might think 'this person can help colour the world again'.

[Marswipp]

There are three Fates in Greek mythology...

[Walnutboy]

There are three Fates in Greek mythology...

Thanks! but at least you understood the picture i was painting!!

[Stephen_Zuckerman]

Walnutboy: The problem with that is that it doesn't fit into the Layonara setting at all. That's just not how it works. <<;;;

[Hellblazer]

The grave stone is an OOC marker, so I don't comment IC if I see one.  The place of my death is personal to me, and I return there to pray (recover) to put the trauma behind me.

My view on this, there is two (probably more) line of thoughts for this

If it is someone that was not in party with you, the grave stone should be ignore, because you do not know if the person was in party when he died and there for no one around to make the grave.

On the other hand, you could go on the assumption that he was and that it is the people, or a passer by (NPC don't forget that there is NPC adventurers even if you do not see them) that found the body, an identification on the body and made the grave for that person.

So depending on your line of thoughts, whether you prefer to play it safe and easy and just think, well he was not with me when he died so I don't see it or, A passer by made the grave for him, is up to each individual I think.

[Stephen_Zuckerman]

Hellblazer: Or it might've been the Bindstones that made the marker.

[Hellblazer]

Yep or that to which is why I () probably more

[EdTheKet]

The grave stone is an OOC marker, so I don't comment IC if I see one. The place of my death is personal to me, and I return there to pray (recover) to put the trauma behind me.

Correct.

If I choose not to recover, I walk about with the aura, but again, that is an OOC indicator, so I try not to comment on it if I see it on someone else.

Correct. And the weakened state comes because of the toll/strain.

[Walnutboy]

So if the above are true then there are alot of people going round and roleplaying something which isn't there ICly! I've looked and isearched the Lore but i can't seem to find anything which states outright 'This is an OOC marker'.

Sorry i'm not trying to annoy anybody but as i see it now, with being a fairly new player, i have one group telling me its OOC, one group unsure, and then a host of people ICly telling me 'you look bad, did you die... lets get you to your grave'. Understandably.... i'm confused.

There are those who ignore, those who roleplay it, if the ignore is the correct thing to do then those offering to help ICly when you die in theory shouldn't offer in the first place as they have no basis with which to suggest you need any kind of aid rendering... unless they see you appear at a bindstone!

For the sake of arguement, are the bindstones IC or OOC items?

Wb.

[Acacea]

The bindstones are totally in-character, as they are what pull your character back to the living instead of letting your soul go on to other realms and all that.

There's nothing wrong with offering aid when seeing someone. They are not ghosts and there is no "I recently died" label on them, nor are they really glowing (OOC visual), but they ARE severely weakened, drained, and are not going to look exactly chipper. There's nothing wrong with asking if something has happened and then offer help when told. Unless they're completely cloaked and hooded or something, and aren't speaking, or essentially making any effort whatsoever to conceal it.

I agree that such important and widespread things as whether certain mechanics of the death system are IC or OOC should be actually documented. LORE suggestions.

I'd rather just get rid of the glow, though. Not everyone scours the explanation of every mechanic.