Intimidation?

[Witch Hunter]

I was wondering
 what does the intimidation skill represent?
Does it mean the character is big and scary? Or can it be applied to a small sized person who for example is really skillful with his blades, thus being able to scare foes away – or does it always mean "he's big and scary and can shout loud"?

Do you have to be big and scary looking to be scary? :p

[Nibor21]

Intimidation is just what it says - the ability to intimidate others. It may well manifest itself in different ways though as you suggest.

The assassin may have a feel and look about him that just says "Don't mess with me i'm your worst day ten fold". The hulking barbarian in her spiky armour with a massive greataxe across her shoulder is equally intimidating.

The assassin would probably be intimidating in a quiet way - he stands in a manner that suggests that all though his blades aren't at your throat, they could be at any second. His voice is low and threatening. You BELEIVE his threats!

The barbarian when she wants to threaten you is probably different. Anger pours from her like an almost visible cloud. She is using her large size to tower over you. She has just picked up a chair in one hand and is threatening to smack your head in with it. The half-giant who still sitting on the chair is trying to look small and non-threatening and hoping he can just return to his cups without being used as a club to bash you over the head with.

Intimidation can be a really good skill to RP, even better in quests (Karana once made a GM led NPC wet themselves in a quest (she rolled a 20). It took the other party members five minutes to get him to stop blubbing before they could get some useful information from him.

Most (straight) barbarians should have a maxed out intimidate skill as they need a high intimidate skill to use terrifying rage (if they take the feat at level 21 or above). For all other classes it is really just an RP decision

[Faldred]

Witch Hunter - 2/20/2007  3:14 AM

Do you have to be big and scary looking to be scary? :p

No, but it helps.    (Zug, for example, is frequently intimidating even when he isn't trying to be, because he's so huge.)

Consider this -- Intimidate is a Rogue class skill.  Most Rogues aren't big and scary looking.  (Although... in my vault of character ideas for the future...)

[LynnJuniper]

Hey Nibor I don't remember, was that the Orgre in Haven during the Illithids quest?
----

Anyway, Yeah intimidation can be a lot of things: You can be a big spiky barbarian, a deadly assasin, or really just highly skilled in what you do. Even, (using an example I'm familiar with) a mage, despite being physically frail, would be able to scare with the...other horrors he or she can preform to mind and body.

[Faldred]

LynnJuniper - 2/20/2007  9:03 AMEven, (using an example I'm familiar with) a mage, despite being physically frail, would be able to scare with the...other horrors he or she can preform to mind and body.

I dunno about anyone else, but Rhynn intimidates the H-E-double-hockey-sticks out of ME.

[Stephen_Zuckerman]

Shyeah. Rhynn is scary.

But even without having to be big and scary, or even very creepy, one can be terrifying.

For example, if a man talks nonchalantly about peeling your skin off, or taking our fingers off one joint at a time, just as if he were talking about the weather...

Well. That'd freak me out.

[LynnJuniper]

Stephen_Zuckerman - 2/20/2007  9:58 AM

Shyeah. Rhynn is scary.

But even without having to be big and scary, or even very creepy, one can be terrifying.

For example, if a man talks nonchalantly about peeling your skin off, or taking our fingers off one joint at a time, just as if he were talking about the weather...

Well. That'd freak me out.

That right there is the best kind of intimidation there is (IMHO)

Truthfully though, Rhynn finds Czukay and Farros a bit intimidating in and of themselves. Sometimes you don't even need the ranks.

[Nibor21]

Intimidation is one of those things that you can decide to always have on  - some PCs as Rhynn says are just always intimidating - can use as and when you need it. I try to play Karana as only intimidating when she wants to be, but to friends she more of a big (and rather dim) big sister.

Part of her personality is quick to take offense though especially if she doesn't entirely understand the thread of the conversation. So she can get intimidating pretty quickly!

[LynnJuniper]

In that sense, people that also demand respect (without asking for it) can be intimidating when you first see them in their own way. I know the first time Rhynn saw/talked to people like Kobal, Rhizome, or (a loooong time ago) Ozy, she was intimidated as the hells, but more in a "For once Im going to act subdued" way. All in all its more of a question of the different types of intimidation. Rhynn still feels a bit 'intimidated' (read: She'll actually be quieter/listen to) some of these people. Yard is a good example. While not imposing or scary, he has a sort of air that almost demands respect without ever asking for it. Its something you =want= to give. That can be intimidating too, though not in a usual sense.

[lonnarin]

LynnJuniper - 2/20/2007  9:23 AM

Truthfully though, Rhynn finds Czukay and Farros a bit intimidating in and of themselves. Sometimes you don't even need the ranks.

Mwahaha, of course there are situational modifiers like in PnP social rolls...  a mentally distrurbed fighter in black platemail with a firey skull lantern who plucks monster flesh off his armor spikes and eats it has something like +15 to +20.  Farros tries to be personable in town, but the tiefer in him usually breaks free at strange times where he goes off into long monologues of bloody doom.  Still, a guy who sends swarms of giants fleeing and strikes the swamp cultists near Rodelm dead with a single wail is bound to turn some heads.  It comes with the skaldic territory.

Rhynn is far scarier though, for she's a woman and therefore very unpredicatble and unreadable with an endless supply of wrath.  Couple that with the magical power and you'll quickly understand why the town crier is so skittish all the time.

[LynnJuniper]

she tries to be personable...in which cases she's usually scarier. But anyway..Any more questions on intimidation?

[Jearick Hgar]

Intimidation to me can be more than just the hulking brute with a bad attitude. though i don't see people being intimidating jsut cuz they're skillfull with their weapon. Just cuz your good doesn't mean you LOOK good. Honestly, i wouldn't be intimidated (saying i never saw his movies) by bruce lee untill he kick my arse. he wasn't that big, he was very dexterious, and could punch hard for a guy his size, he didn't even have that "don't mess with me fight" untill he was actually fighting.

I'm also agaisnt that *this guy has that "don't mess with me" feel* cuz i see it a lot in ig bios, and personally thing slike that make me roll my eyes. or like *the gaze at you and you feel a shvier down your spine*. the don't mess with me feel isn't something you apply to your char, it's something others apply to your char. Just cuz you feel your char is a Bad a** doesn't mean everyone else feels the same. personally, and this is Tath growing up in a society raised that small and fragile is weak while big and tough is strong, if a Halfling came up to Tath and tried to intimidate him, Tath would either A) laugh or B) try to intimidate back unless they rolled a 19 or a 20. same might go with a dexed based fighter.

however i'm not playing "i can't be scared cuz i r uber" i hate that, if Czuk came up to intimidate Tath i'm sure he'd succeed, same with praylor, i'ms ure anyone one with magic could intimidate Tath as the whoel concept is very foreign to him.

I guess what i'm trying to say is i don't like characters that aren't intimidating to try and make themselves itimidating by buffing up the skill. Tath has alot of RP behind his intimidation, He roars, beheads, mutilates,a nd destroys corpses in hsi rages. He wears armor that's made to scare hsi enemies, He's got a bad temper at times and it's getting worse as he trains mroe and more as a barbarian. He's over seven feet tall muscular and tattooed up for what that's worth heh. He's also from a tribe that doesn't frown on killing someone if they've have "dishonored" you with words or actions. He actually Kill Hector for starting a lie that he had rabies. After sticking to that and having so much reason behind why he intimidates, it jsut kilsl me when i see someone runnign around like "sweet i just got my WM level, time to start upping Intimidate cuz i don't want anyone to scare me, and plus i should be scarey. I mean i'm good with a weapon, I have confidence i'm good with a weapon, so i fi say "make another step or i'll gut you" people should be scared."

i might start some flair at me with that, but i jsut don't see that as a good reason tob e intimidating. lots of people are good with their weapon, doesn't mean their intimidating.

[Witch Hunter]

"sweet i just got my WM level, time to start upping Intimidate cuz i don't want anyone to scare me, and plus i should be scarey. I mean i'm good with a weapon, I have confidence i'm good with a weapon, so i fi say "make another step or i'll gut you" people should be scared.""


Seriously, a weapon master that slices down his foes without much effort compared to a brute that takes a beat while doing it and then ravages the corpse... well, the brute might be scary to some, an idiot to others... but the blade master did his job quick and clean - if your character isn't afraid to mess with him in your opinion than sure, but as far as im concerned I'd be scared to cross a man whos a master of his weapon :p


I compare his skill with weapons to Rhynns skill with magic, both equally scary - each in its own way.

[Praylor Falcus]

No worries Tath praylor don't do the intimadation thingy, he try's to enforce the law, but as he has no means to others make it a joke

[jrizz]

Well I take a little different view here. You dont have to be mean all the time or darkly scary to intimidate. I have a elf barbarian (lol) he is not big or too mean looking (except for the deep cross shaped scar) but he has a high intimidate and he uses it only when it is needed. So I RP that he is getting grim, angry, mad, or upset then I emote that his voice changes and he speaks in a low growl. And then I do a intimidate roll. So the questions I have are:
What is the counter roll to a intimidate?
And what do you need to beat?
How do you tell if a PCs intimidate roll should affect you?
Can a clearly less experienced PC intimidate a much more exp PC?
If a PC fails against an intimidate how can the PC handle that?

[Chongo]

Bear in mind the modifier of intimate is charisma.

That supports the general clause that intimidation is nothing more then an avenue utilizing force of personality.  Which is again, as with all CHA modifiers, using what you've got and being confident in it.

A massive, growling, dumb brute can have an intimidation to a degree with his personality constantly pursuing a feeble but powerful stance.

A blademaster with some wit and a little social saavy can turn on the intimidation with some more suave and sass, begging those weaker willed to simply avoid conflict.

Likewise, the witty secretive and almost always friendly bard with hitpoints lower then my grandmother can use force of personality to quickly beg questions in your mind as to what shade of truth he is using in his subtle but foreboding signals.  What does he know that you don't, why is he smiling about it, and am I about to die?  This too is intimidation.

It's a direct pressure of your charisma.



.... that and it's the DC check for terrifying rage which is one of the coolest feats in the game that I'm just begging for someone to brave the barbarian build to be rewarded by it.

[jrizz]

Im working on it chongo

[Stephen_Zuckerman]

*What is the counter roll to a intimidate?

Well, this depends on who you ask. Myself, I have to go with the D20 system rules. That is, 1d20 + WIS modifier + 1/2 ECL (effective character level).

Many people here, though, will say that a Will save is more appropriate. I strongly disagree, here, but that's another discussion.

*And what do you need to beat?

The opposed roll.

*How do you tell if a PCs intimidate roll should affect you?

Common sense by thy guide.

*Can a clearly less experienced PC intimidate a much more exp PC?

Oh, heck yes. I'm a level 5 Expert, but the level 1 Warrior's still going to scare the crud out of me if he's got a giant axe in his hands and he's coming for me.

*If a PC fails against an intimidate how can the PC handle that?

How would you react if you were thoroughly intimidated by someone?

[Gulnyr]

What is the counter roll to a intimidate?

There are a lot of opinions.  Some say a Will check, some say a Wisdom check, there might be a few votes for an opposed Intimidate check.  The 3.0 Player's Handbook says the DC for an Intimidate check is typically 10 + the target's hit dice, plus saving throw modifiers against fear (for PCs, hit dice = character level).  I like a modified level check:

1d20 + Character Level + Wisdom Modifier + Modifiers vs Fear.  

- The d20 allows for some random results (aka luck).  It's the same thing as the 10 in the 3.0 PHB version, which is simply an average d20 roll.  This just let's the luck come through.
- Character level helps represent that higher level characters are generally harder to threaten successfully; think of all the things they've fought against and all the people they've stood up to in the past.  
- The Wisdom modifier gives a little bonus to the characters with more will power.  It might seem like this gives an unfair advantage to Clerics, but I bet you'd be more sure of your safety if you could call on the power of the gods.
 - Intimidate is basically trying to scare someone into doing what you want, so "Modifiers vs. Fear" is self explanatory.  

It's not so low as to be useless against anyone with Intimidate ranks (like a typical Wisdom check or opposed Intimidate roll), and not so high that it can't be beaten by a character of comparable level with some experience at intimidation.

And what do you need to beat?

Using the 3.0 PHB method, the Intimidate check has to beat a DC of 10 + the target character's level.  With the other methods, the Intimidate check result becomes the DC that the target has to beat on her roll.

How do you tell if a PCs intimidate roll should affect you?

If you roll against the Intimidate check and don't beat it, your character is intimidated.  In the case of the 3.0 PHB method, if the other character's Intimidate check is more than ten above your character's level, your character is intimidated.

Can a clearly less experienced PC intimidate a much more exp PC?

With a little luck.  Characters don't know that they have levels and such, so what looks obviously less experienced to us doesn't necessarily look the same to our characters.  Any Intimidate attempt should be handled seriously with rolls, but a target that overwhelmingly beats the Intimidate roll shouldn't be afraid to react appropriately to the threat (laughing, etc).  It's important to make the rolls first rather than trying to force the RP by deciding unilaterally that Lewis Lowlevel just doesn't have a chance to intimidate your character.

If a PC fails against an intimidate how can the PC handle that?

Imagine how you would feel in real life if someone threatened you and you believed he meant it.  Keep that in mind as you consider the same situation through your character's eyes, then roleplay accordingly.  Depending on the threat, the character, and the situation, it might be enough to be quiet, or it might take running away.  

In some cases, there would need to be extra modifiers added to help represent the convictions of the target, and sometimes no amount of Intimidation would make the target act as desired.  Let's say Pamela Pummel threatens Carlos Cleric with serious injury or death if he doesn't kill Terrence Target.  It just so happens that Carlos is an Aeridinite priest and is sworn to preserve life, so he would almost surely take whatever beating was coming rather than kill Terrence.  Carlos might still be intimidated, he might even whimper and cower, but he wouldn't do what Pamela wanted.

[jrizz]

So if one wants to intimidate someone they must roll higher on thier intimidate check then 10 + the targets level.
So A want to intimidate B, A rolls D20 + Intimidate
If A rolls higher then 10 + B's level there is a chance of success.
B must then roll D20 + level + wisdom mod
If B's roll is higher then A's intimidate check then B is not intimidated.

So if A has a Intimidate of 10 the best roll A can get is 30
So any PC whose level + wisdom mod is 30 or higher cannot be affected by A.