ok so we really dont have a consensus on this. Both as to method and to reaction. Although the method SZ laid out seems very clear (I will call it the 3.0 method) it is still only one of three at this point (3.0, will, and same vs same methods). If a GM (or GMs) could weigh in on this it would help. As to the reaction, we have for the most part a common thought "you would be intimidated". Now WH's point above is a good one. The PC's are mostly heros ready and trained to face danger (except the evil ones which I dont know what they are). They are used to seeing a room full of nasties that could kill them and charging in anyway. So if faced with what they see as real danger and not just an empty threat (failed roll) would they not react in kind. Of course most heros are also smart and wont charge into certain death. So if intimidate results in a feelng that this person can and will kill you will the hero retreat?
Iosheka, that's just one method, and a reasonably common method, at least when dealing with two characters who both have a high Intimidate modifier. It's not balanced, though. As you'll recall at that session, the consensus was that there wasn't really any consensus, and to figure it out yourself, except on DM quests (when you roll what they tell you to).In terms of Aura of Courage, I'd say that would give +5 to the Paladin's level check, and +2 to everyone he considered with him. (I.e. those in Party.) Nothing should ever give total immunity to it except catatonia.
CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Tue Feb 27 11:47:20] Sallaron Tempest: Oh...just a quick one......[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Tue Feb 27 11:47:39] Sallaron Tempest: ....bit of confusion over it.....what counter's a Intimidate and Bluff check when out of a DM quest?[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Tue Feb 27 11:47:55] Death's Harbinger: thats really a tough one [CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Tue Feb 27 11:48:06] Muireann: I know what Dorgy told me.....[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Tue Feb 27 11:48:07] Kutya'I: *raises his hand*[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Tue Feb 27 11:48:10] Muireann: for ease[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Tue Feb 27 11:48:25] Death's Harbinger: since its DnD skills there SHOULD be skills to counter them but they aren't put in NwN go ahead Muir[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Tue Feb 27 11:48:31] Death's Harbinger: one sec Kut[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Tue Feb 27 11:48:46] Kutya'I: I looked into this and for NWN a will save is what is typically use.. was rasing my hand for that [CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Tue Feb 27 11:49:02] Muireann: Dorgy said that due the the fact there aren't skills to counter them and it's not fair to counter with a will....[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Tue Feb 27 11:49:17] Muireann: as you can't up your will in the same way someone can with skill points...[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Tue Feb 27 11:49:34] Muireann: He said to go with an opposed roll of the same skill[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Tue Feb 27 11:49:47] Sallaron Tempest: *sighs miserably* Will save huh.......that's just great[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Tue Feb 27 11:49:51] Death's Harbinger: *nods to Muir*[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Tue Feb 27 11:49:52] Muireann: No[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Tue Feb 27 11:49:56] Death's Harbinger: not a will save[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Tue Feb 27 11:49:57] Muireann: Not will[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Tue Feb 27 11:50:06] Sallaron Tempest: Oh *perks up*[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Tue Feb 27 11:50:15] Muireann: Opposed roll of the same skill[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Tue Feb 27 11:50:19] Death's Harbinger: a will save is what you would use on a dm quest where a fair DC could be determined by the DM[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Tue Feb 27 11:50:43] Sallaron Tempest: So....bluff vs bluff.....intim vs intim?[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Tue Feb 27 11:50:51] Death's Harbinger: yes[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Tue Feb 27 11:50:52] Muireann: That's what Dorgy said[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Tue Feb 27 11:50:53] Kutya'I: cool! [CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Tue Feb 27 11:51:02] Sallaron Tempest: Sounds better to me *grins*[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Tue Feb 27 11:51:27] Muireann: Otherwise the high level rogue will always bluff you unless you've very lucky
As I am certain any DM will tell you, that is not an absolute statement, and not the official be-all-end-all statement. The official statement is "Common sense, and on DM quests, whatever the DM asks for."
Using the same social skill for a check is the standard, otherwise the GMs would not have told us in RP101.
Beating a Bluff ... I would say that one of the following (whichever's highest) would be appropriate:- Opposed Bluff check (if you know a good lie when you see one...)- WIS check + 1/2 levels (not everyone maxes out Sense Motive, but this would be nice for those perceptive characters)- INT check (this may not seem quite as intuitive, but a smart person can catch flaws in a person's bluffs)
I'll agree with you there, Gulnyr; the advantage is clearly for Bluffers in that instance. But... What about Gary Gullible? He's got no ranks at all in Sense Motive...I think the thing I was trying to hedge against was the ease of exploitation of WIS + level. Those who have Bluff have actually spent skill points, while those using our ad hoc method haven't. And that much really does seem unfair (at least to me, who values skill points as much or more than feats).
Roleplay-wise, I think a lot of the social skill rolls should be used sparingly between PCs. In other words, players should actually roleplay bluffs and persuasion rather than constantly resorting to dice.