Roleplaying Charisma

[Ioskeha]

I'm relatively new to playing DnD.  I've only been playing it for seven or so months now.  I have no experience with playing DnD outside of NWN; all my role-playing experience has come from playing MUDs.  With that said I think the hardest stat for me to role-play is Charisma.  

In MUDs that have used this stat I've always thought of them as your characters base personality.  If you have a high Charisma your character will most likely have a positive outlook on life, if it's low then they'll tend to have a negative outlook.  Now I'm not saying that a character with a high Charisma score couldn't have a negative personality or vice versa, but more along the lines of decision making.  Like lets stay that you're in a party.  This party has decided to setup an ambush.  A charcter with a higher then average Charisma would think that this ambush would work with little to no harm to the part, while a character with a lower then average Charisma would think that this ambush is a bad idea and that too many people would be injured, and a character with average Charisma would follow the general flow of the party.

How far off is my reasoning with this?

[Tedulas]

To be honest, I don't really role-play charisma, apart from the fact I scare people...litterarry I am a necromancer with charisma 8. But, I tend to sometimes take leadership role in parties, or leave it to someone else.
Wouldn't worry too much about that in my opinion.

[SquareKnot]

Charisma in NWN really means two somewhat different things. First, it is your physical attractiveness -- how good looking you are. This is hard to role play, as you don't know the Charisma score of those around you. I just try to go by the appearance of the avatar and trust that people with high or low charisma will do something to look the part.

The other, more game-mechanics part of charisma is stage presence or leadership. A person with high charisma radiates decisiveness and confidence. He or she is a natural leader, the person with the plan, the one you would follow into battle. High charisma people just seem powerful and leave others in awe of them. That is why this stat is used for undead turning. An impressive, confident cleric has more impact on the undead -- and the living, for that matter. Bards need high charisma to catch and hold the attention of a group, and inspire the troops via the bardsong. Sorcerers draw their magic from that inner well of power and strength that exhibits itself externally as charisma, and charisma allows them to command that power with authority.

So in your example, the party would have decided to set up the ambush because the high charisma guy said, "Listen, we're going to set an ambush -- and who's with me!" A character with less charisma would follow the leader unless he or she had a good reason not too, maybe even if they thought that it was a mildly bad plan, all because they had been talked into it by Capt. Charisma.

Just my thoughts as a guy with 15 charisma. Strength and Dex were my dump stats. Yep, I'm worthless in battle, but people should listen to me, darn it.

[Rhizome]

I would think that something like setting up the ambush would be covered by Intelligence, Wisdom and Charisma.  The Wisdom will come into play to help a character determine whether or not an ambush is a good idea to begin with, and then later if it is a good idea based on the plan figured out.  I'd think that a character would use Intelligence to come up with the plan, either good or bad depending on the Intelligence score and rolls.  Then Charisma would come into play regarding a character's ability to convince others that her or his plan is a good one.  The more Charisma that character has, the more likely they are to convince the group.
  Charisma is a tough one to RP, as it comes into play in RP situations in the interaction between two characters.  My suggestion is to use you dice bags, even though there is nobody there to regulate it.  Let's say you are tying to convince your party that the ambush is a good idea.  So, explain your idea briefly and roll a persuade check.  Then the people in your party can roll a will save.  If the persuade is higher, then the persuasion worked.  The others in your group might also want to put modifiers on their own rolls, which you should allow them to do for the sake of flexibility.  For example, if you come up with the worlds worst ambush plan and try to convince people of it, it'll be far more difficult than if it is a good plan.
  Anyway, just some thoughts.  Hope they help.  Talk to you soon.
  Rhizome

[Acacea]

I keep waiting for less wordy people to answer this so I don't have to figure out how to get my point across.

I feel that charisma in your example, would be the ability to lead or convince others into setting that ambush, whether or not its a good idea (which would likely be determined by intelligence). An intelligent and experienced character that *knows* it's retarded, but just doesn't work well with others and isn't so easily welcomed and trusted by strangers may have a better plan that is passed up simply because he didn't have the force of character that a highly charismatic individual does.

Edit- Oh, well, wait no longer. Bad timing as usual for me.

[Ioskeha]

I'm a lot like Acacea when it comes to explaing stuff it seems.

What I meant to say is how the person feels about the ambush that has already been set into motion.  A person with high Charisma would feel like it's a good idea and think that the outcome will be positive, while a person with low Charisma would feel that the ambush is a mistake and will have a negative out come.  You know seeing the cup half full or half empty.

I do appericate you guys/gals helping me understand this, but I didn't word my question properly.

[Acacea]

Actually, I knew what you meant, I just disagree and feel the responses given were more, you know, having something to do with someone's charisma.

I think that the intelligence and general workability of the plan, combined with the intelligence of those participating would contribute more to how a character would feel about the plan.

The half giant with the ultra low charisma may happily be optimistic in thinking that just running into the room to smash the whole horde would work out for him, and end up taking the Hlint Express back to town and sit at the bindstone thinking "Me thought that wurk gud."  Because he's, you know. Not so smart.

Edit- But it's more just because I think the half full/empty thing (even about a decision once made) just completely depends on the character and not so much a single stat.

[Ne'er]

To be honest, im not sure physical appearance or outlook on life have a whole lot to do with it. They may helop a bit, but to me  the main thing about charisma is charm, leadership ability, and force of personality.

For example, Jet has a charisma of 8, so he doesn't talk much about anything besides his business, which is combat. He will often just shout orders in combat, not paying any attentiont to whether people think his orders are a good idea. Drake, on the other hand, has a charisma of 15 and does his best to rally the party together and take ideas from everyone. He also makes plenty of small talk in town with others.

[Ioskeha]

That's exactly why I asked this question.  I'm playing a Half-Giant that has higher then average Intelligence (by human standards) lower then average Wisdom, and a very low Charisma score.  And I'm trying to figure out how to work his Charisma score into his personality.

[Etinfall]

I am no expert on this subject and to get the full benefit of the cha modifier a roll needs to be made. But, say your char (from above) tried to convince me of a plan of attack. It could be a really good idea but your low charisma, makes you hard to listen to seriously. You have a hard time getting your points across and I (as a pc in general) am more inclined to hear what the guy/gal with a high charisma score has to say.

So your character comes up with an idea. no one really hears you. The Bard (with high Charisma and int, maybe wis) hears you and gets everybody's attention and repeats the plan. hmmm, that bard has a good idea.


this is my take on it. To have this work rolls need to be made though.

I also am of the school of thought that a charisma score has a little to do with looks. But it is race specific, A beautiful orc is beautiful to other orcs but still ugly to a human and vice versa.

Etin

[Filatus]

Didn't read all the other posts, wasn't in the mood.

But here's my view on charisma.

Charisma is the strength of ones words.

Daeron for example never gets listened to, he has a low charisma and apparently all the other players know that as well.... *nods* Never gets taken serious.

[Ioskeha]

Thanks a lot everyone.  I think I have a good understanding on how tp role-play this stat now.

[scotcar]

Just to add, Pendar has an average charisma.  His is mostly polite to people but can be abrasive and get on peoples nerves, especially when asking questions.  He can some times speak without tact and does not suffer fools easily.
So that means he can annoy people, but others like him for whom he is.

Ward on the other hand has an above average charisma and is very spiritual, good natured and attractive, but not one for jokes.

I know that my next character, if I ever make him, will have a dark humour to suit his past.  Again his charisma will be above average to make him more interesting to play rather than a Str, Con, Dex maxed fighter that is as think as a brick and does not know when to come in out of the rain.

[nightstovers]

I don't like the charisma stat.  They should replace it with an "influence" stat.

[Arcanist]

Despite most people seeming to not care about charisma, i think it is actually very important that people know how to role play it. For example, it really fills me with fury when a bard rolls something like a 36 perform check, and *sings a wonderfully beutiful song*, and then some fool with an 8 or 6 charisma puts *sings that very same song* without even rolling a perform check! it is situations like this when high charisma characters would probably think "WHAT THE HELL". Characters with high charisma should be respected. And charisma, though hated and ignored by some, is one of the most important stats in role play.

[Stephen_Zuckerman]

I'd like to offer my input on the importance of charisma.

As I've been playing the two characters, Pyyran and Cynn Reyer, I've come to notice something: Cynn, despite having a much, much lower charisma score, is much more well-liked by those she interacts with. Perhaps a lot of this issue is simply my own possibly sub-par roleplaying in this area, but my attempts to play a higher WIS, lower CHA, and roughly equal INT have essentially made a more likable person in Cynn than Pyyran. Pyyran is flamboyant, occasionally loud, and rather persuasive. He's an attractive fellow who fills the shoes of your archetypal swashbucklery rogue. But he has a low wisdom score, and doesn't often read into people as well as he probably should. (By low, in his case, I mean 10.) His temper's a bit shorter, and he has a tendancy to speak less plainly than Cynn.

Wisdom and Intelligence are just as important to roleplay as Charisma.

In the case of someone with an 8 charisma trying to copy a Perform check of 36, well... They could get a 19, theoretically, but the basic idea is that they would butcher whatever the other person did. Badly. We have to remember that a Perform check of 10 is Farmer Joe singing the Drinkin' Song of Annie Lou - dead average for a normal person. 36... That should be a performance to sweep away the soul, and it represents, for someone with, say, 20 ranks in Perform, a not inconsiderable effort. If someone's just singing a diddy, they'll usually not do anything more than about a check of 20, even if they have more ranks than that - it's just a matter of them not putting in thier full effort. Myself, as a person... I've got about 3 ranks in Perform, if I had to rate myself. Then a +2 to a check for making music, thanks to a moderate CHA, and I could make up to a 25 check, assuming I were a character in D&D with those stats. However, as I sit here and whistle to myself, it's nothing more than, say, a check of 12, because I'm not putting any real effort into it.

D'you follow?

[xXDenizeNXx]

IMO they should break the CHA stats into two and Have Looks and Personality. This way there could be no confusion on what CHA is and does. Some schools of thought say one thing some say another, i'm not going to agree or disagree with either schools of thought instead i'm going to throw a cruve ball at the whole thing and say that its been due for a long time in DnD Cha needs the boot and replace it with Looks and Personality.

I also agree with most of what i've read here to a point, but I still feel looks have nothing to do with Charisma
Peace
Den

[Polak76]

Heh, good luck twisting the arm of the editors from WOTC with that one Denizen.

Anyway Charisma will always be one of those attributes that raises many arguments extracting everyones expert opinions.  Fact is no one will  ever seem to agree with a generic ruleset for the stat so I'm with Orth using your Dicebag wherever possible. We've got one so lets use it.

We can all spend infinite hours discussing flaws with the DnD system.  Acutally in my opinion I think its riddled with them.  But where will it ever stop?  We simply need to enjoy what we've got, and make sure its used fairly in the world of RP.  

So whilst i agree with many people's opinion, i believe Charisam is both Influence and Presence.  You can have more of one, or the other, even both.  Its an important stat for gameplay and I'd like to see it used effectively.  

Cheers,
Polak76

[Doc-Holiday]

One name

Weston Pendrot

Says it all

[darkstorme]

The book in D&D's extensible D20 system that deals with *ahem* sex, which will not be named here, does do this by dividing the Charisma stat by producing a new base stat - Appearance.  APP is simply physical beauty, of whatever sort.  A gold dragon, for example, would have a spectacular APP, as would a nymph, or a comely member of any race.  CHA is then relegated to the duty of force of personality.  Appearance still plays a role, of course, because it can be harder for those of below-average attractiveness to convince others to follow them.  However, a skilled orator (think Martin Luther King, Churchill, or, on the LE side of things, Hitler) need not be terribly attractive physically to win people over with sheer force of personality.

The reason why the D&D rulebooks don't separate this stat initially, I believe, is because they wanted to keep with six stats: there's a lovely symmetry to six - the product of two primes, the sum of the first three numbers, etc. - and any more and you start to wonder why, say, DEX isn't separated into agility and manual dexterity, and so forth.