The Gods Fashion Police

[Witch Hunter]

The time has come yet again to ask a question of faith and the norm, brought to you by yours truly.
 
 (NOTE NOTE NOTE: I will be using Aeridin as an example here but this applies to ANY god)
 
 
 So, here we go.
 I had a discussion with Weeblie regarding some of the favored stuff of our beloved god and well.. According to him it's disallowed to wear any other color than the color mentioned on the deity page.
 Doesn't that sound a bit absurd? What, Aeridin would deny his powers from my cleric for not following his dressing code? What is he, the fashion police? (Note - this is valid for ANY god)
 
 
 Let's have a look at the favored stuff:
 

In general, clerics of Aeridin prefer to wear white robes. They'll only don armor when absolutely necessary, and even then with great hesitation. However, if they do, they'll wear full plate, either coated with a layer of silver or - more rarely - made from mithril. Their armor is usually embossed with golden leaves.

 
 Am I the only one that sees the flexibility with this? Why couldn't my cleric wear what he sees fit as long as he keeps it within the lines of the dogma? (Like, not wearing a robe with the symbol of Shadon and keeping his Golden Leaf amulet viable and nice)
 
 So now I'm asking here, in the roleplay forum rather in the Aeridin forum because this applies to ALL faiths... Are clerics -FORCED- to wear the color the deity sees fit or risk losing the powers he grants them?
 
 to sum it up... my question is; are we forced to wear the favored color?

[Kindo]

I sincerely doubt Aeridin (or any other gods for that matter) would smite down his followers if they dared to wear a brown or yellow robe instead of a blindingly white one. It does say "in general" after all, which is a bit more lenient than a line that says that they shun this or that. Then it's definitely a bit more severe, but as for clothing... I sincerely doubt it. We all know Paladins have it a bit more sternly than that, but that's not part of this issue.

[MJZ]

Well. If colours are prohibitive for a cleric according to the faith, I think it would say that. But all I've seen from the various deity pages is the word "prefer," so I would take it at that value. White is the chosen colour of Aeridin, so Aeridinites (and other clerics, like Witch I'm just using it as a placeholder) will often wear white for the obvious reasons - to easily recognize one another and be recognized by those in need of their god's wisdom and aid.

But I didn't think that had anything to do with prohibition. After all, a priest is clothe in his faith - I wouldn't think a god would care so much about the dye on a piece of fabric as to limit the powers of those who do not comply. I have never seen Aeridinites running around in full black robes with a skull-mask, anyways - if we're talking just about the colour of your tunic, I think it's extreme to say you must only wear the colour of your god. Correct me if I'm wrong, Sol'thas wears beige tones? That's pretty much white, I say.

Besides.. colours are beautiful!

[Weeblie]

This is more about your own character than the god.

Why WOULD your character wear any other color than white?

A cleric is a cleric. A cleric is pretty much an extention of the god he or she follows. A cleric is wearing the color of the god's choice for recognition and in honor, just the reason of why the cleric is using the favoured weapon/armor of the deity also.

The third paragraph in a submission is there for a reason: To tell if your character is following the deity's practices and if not, why your character is not.

So, yes. I would say that the color you wear is equally important as why the weapon you wield has to follow the favoured one (if no good reason is given of why your character would not).

Same goes for Paladin's (even more so probably) but not necessary as for all the non-divine followers.

And, yes, this is mostly my own opinion and would require greater verification with L or Ed. But I would say with 85% certainity that this is the case as I have described it.

Edit: Wearing the wrong color will most probably not exclude you from faith. But add that action to some other actions that pushes you away from the deity, and the risk suddenly increases.

[Witch Hunter]

Why WOULD your character wear any other color than white?

 
 Same reason I don't in real life, doesn't suit him and he likes other colors better.
 
 
 

A cleric is a cleric. A cleric is pretty much an extention of the god he or she follows. A cleric is wearing the color of the god's choice for recognition and in honor.

 
 Where does it state "Aeridins choice is white"? it says "In general, clerics of Aeridin prefer to wear white robes", that's our choice as clerics.
 
 
 

just the reason of why the cleric is using the favoured weapon/armor of the deity also.
 

 
 So if a cleric is too weak to wear say... a full plate mail - he's not allowed to wear a chain shirt because it's not favored by Aeridin? Nu uh.

[Dorganath]

OK....

It's not so much a matter of a deity being the "fashion police" as it is that a diety's followers, especially the clerics, should (note: should, not must) at least show some deference to the preferences of the deity over their own.

This is a show of Faith over personal preference and perhaps even personal comfort.

The "my character likes this better" excuse is rather thin, but it's generally OK for, say, and Aeridinite druid. A priest or paladin of the same should be more observant of a deity's wishes.  For what it's worth, this "because he likes it better" excuse is also used to thinly justify the use of better weapons that reach outside the dogma of their gods.  Again, this can be excused in characters who are not clerics, paladins or champions (as applicable), but for clergy and those divinely gifted, it is questionable.

I'll give you an example:  My main character is a multiclassed sorcerer/fighter and a Lucindite.  He could wear anything he wants, as he has all the armor proficiencies up through heavy.  He could use any weapon he wants, as he pretty much has all those proficiencies as well.  But he doesn't.  He spends most of his time in plain clothes, ony wears armor that doesn't affect his spellcasting and spends 99% of the time he actually does fight using a quarterstaff.  Regardless of what he's wearing, there's always at least some blue in the outfit. He could wear any color, he could use any weapon, but as a show of faith he stays in line with dogma.  

And he's not a cleric, nor is he likely to be.

So no, no one's going to be the fashion police, though one should really take the time and consider whether or not it's good/proper RP for a cleric to say "Hmmm...no, my god's colors are just so bleh...I think I'll wear something else instead."  There is flexibility, but one should also keep those guidlines firmly in view.

[Dorganath]

I'm going to address this one specifically

So if a cleric is too weak to wear say... a full plate mail - he's not allowed to wear a chain shirt because it's not favored by Aeridin? Nu uh.

Um...Yes.

When your cleric character was approved, you had to agree to a statement about the deity's preferences regarding weapons, clothing and armor.  A while back, we instituted a rule for character approval where a cleric would need to give a strong RP reason at the time of character submission to deviate from these strongly recommended preferences.  If you did not, then yes...a chain shirt should not even be considered by your cleric character.

That is exactly how it is supposed to work.  I'm sorry if this seems harsh and inflexible, but come on....is it really too much to expect that a cleric would respect the preferences of his/her deity?

I don't think it is.

[Witch Hunter]

The "my character likes this better" excuse is rather thin, but it's generally OK for, say, and Aeridinite druid. A priest or paladin of the same should be more observant of a deity's wishes. For what it's worth, this "because he likes it better" excuse is also used to thinly justify the use of better weapons that reach outside the dogma of their gods. Again, this can be excused in characters who are not clerics, paladins or champions (as applicable), but for clergy and those divinely gifted, it is questionable.

 
 I agree with everything you say but that doesn't answer the question of WHERE does it state that it's AERIDINS (or any other god) wish?
 it's says generally the clerics wear white, sure - what about those that don't? generally doesn't include all.
 
 You gave your personal example and I'll give mine:
 
 My character, a cleric of Aeridin that follows most of the dogma (He has one exception which was approved on his submission). He helps others, he heals injured and aids ANYONE that asks for it (anyone being regardless of alignment or faith, coming from a point of view that anyone deserves a chance and anyone can change).
 He is (or I'd like to think so) humble in his faith, he does not run around preaching it nor does he think the powers granted to him by Aeridin should be used ever so often to impress others (CDT for more), he heals using his own skills mostly and calls upon his god when needed.
 He wears simple clothes and doesn't even wield a weapon, he does carry around his neck a holy symbol (and it states so in his description) and even has a holdable symbol he uses when he fights undead.
 
 As far as he (and I) see it his faith is not measured by the dye of his clothes, he does as his god requires him so but he is quiet and humble about it.
 
 It's not like his clothes are dyed red and black and he carries around a burning sword - heck he simply wears brown which is the color of earth, one of his domains too.
 
 
 I asked what I did because Weeblie said unless I was approved to wear something else in my submission I -have to- wear white, I don't believe it to be so.

[Witch Hunter]

Um...Yes.
 
 When your cleric character was approved, you had to agree to a statement about the deity's preferences regarding weapons, clothing and armor. A while back, we instituted a rule for character approval where a cleric would need to give a strong RP reason at the time of character submission to deviate from these strongly recommended preferences. If you did not, then yes...a chain shirt should not even be considered by your cleric character.
 

 
 Well -my cleric- already considered a chain shirt and was approved for one in his submission.
 
 The question was however a general question regarding any cleric.
 So let me understand this - if a character is to weak (low str) he may not wear an armor that suits his strength if he wasnt approved for it?..
 
 If it was Corath I'd understand, but a good like Aeridin? we're putting the clerics life in risk here and I doubt a good god would allow harm to touch his devoted follower - if the cleric can't take the weight of a full plate he can't go for something lighter? sounds a bit silly - and yes, very very very harsh.
 
 Would a good deity like Aeridin or Ilsare smite his follower for being too weak to mount whatever armor they prefer? duh.

[Stephen_Zuckerman]

Armor too heavy to carry around? That's what the blessings of your deity are for.

Bull's Strength, anyone?

Aeridin provides.

[Dorganath]

Don't take this the wrong way, but I really wish people would not always try and split an already thin, grey line.

The clergy of Aeridin, or any deity for that matter, does not possess a letter from Aeridin saying "I'd really like it if you all would wear white. Thanks, A"  It is a belief and a show of faith based on interpretation of dogma (which by the way is longer than what is posted in LORE).  What you should recognize is that if the summary of dogma and the preferences stated in that summary reflect what is believed to be true.

It boils down to this...if your character's deity has a preference for a particular color, you should at least make the attempt to respect that color choice.  So for example, brown robes might be OK, but it would seem an appropriate thing to encorporate white into the color scheme.

But please...let's concentrate on the intent (i.e. the spirit of the rule) of these color preferences and not dissect the exact wording, letter by letter, of what is said.  I think we all understand what is intended.

[Witch Hunter]

Alright so for further reference - if a character wants to wear different colors he has to mention so in his submission?
 
 From what I understood from Weeblie it's disallowed completely - from what I understand from you there is SOME flexibility?

[Gunther]

Do you see Catholic priests wearing flaming orange robes with tiger stripes on them and maybe a Rolling Stones big tongue logo on the back?  No, at least I dont think you do.  Would it be cooler?  Dunno, maybe.  But it just isnt done.

[Witch Hunter]

I've cleared out what I had to ask with Dorg in private, this discussion can be deleted or left open for others to read but I'm not getting involved anymore :p
 
 
 
 
 
 
 *keeps his brown outfit*

[Stephen_Zuckerman]

Do you see Catholic priests wearing flaming orange robes with tiger stripes on them and maybe a Rolling Stones big tongue logo on the back?  No, at least I dont think you do.  Would it be cooler?  Dunno, maybe.  But it just isnt done.

I wish I did. Heh.

I've always seen the colour deal as A) identification and B) representation of the ideals of the deity...

For example, Aeridin is the Lifebringer, and positive energy typically looks blue and gold - cast a Cure Serious, then /o *casts*. Light colours? White, the polar opposite of black (the colour typically associated with death, as well as Corath)?

[MJZ]

Do you see Catholic priests wearing flaming orange robes with tiger stripes on them and maybe a Rolling Stones big tongue logo on the back?

Heh heh heh..

Well, that's very true. But Catholic priests don't go around in their get-up when they're walking down the street to buy a peach from the local shopkeep, normally. There is a difference between ceremonial wear, and what you'd put on when trudging through the swamps. On that note, white is a very inconvenient colour, for an adventurer. After a few hours, that pristine robe would be painted red. And I'm not talking raspberry jam, here.

But I'm completely on the same wavelength as Stephen, about this issue. Since it is a dogmatic colour, priests and priestesses should and are going to be wearing it. But I don't see any problem with one elven cleric preferring brown instead. =)

[hawklen]

What if your cleric is colour blind?

[Weeblie]

Alright so for further reference - if a character wants to wear different colors he has to mention so in his submission?
 
 From what I understood from Weeblie it's disallowed completely - from what I understand from you there is SOME flexibility?

...

It's as much disallowed as it is disallowed to use non-favoured weapons, I would think. The later being disallowed unless one states it in the 3rd point in the submission.

[MJZ]

Ah yep, the character submission seems the right place to do it, but in this case, the question of the space between "preferred" and "prohibited" came in after nine levels.

But you know what they say! Nothing is impossible, because, impossible itself says I M Possible...

[Weeblie]

This also brings up... what is to "wear a specific color"?

A white robe is only... mostly white... not completely white.

I would call someone wearing a 100% white robe for a fanatic.