To unsual parenthood! Thoughts.

[iceyfire]

Due to a quest last night Sabrissia has gone from a solo adventurer to a single parent of a lovely Gnoll baby.
While it is very vicious when its hungry she has found it to be quiet when its content.
From what i can tell from various resources these creatures live a similiar life span to a human but are adults at the age of 14.
They will eat meat raw or cooked, and drink water.
However what i am unsure of is if they have any possibility of being aclamated into society, if they have the ability to recognise speech.
I assume however since they can use magic they must have some way of grasping this knowledge.

She was intelligent enough to think that it was a bad idea but not wise enough to say no to taking it
So she is stuck with it, and being the good natured person she is she will raise it as best she can.

I would like to hear your thoughts on this, and any tips you can offer to gnoll baby raising besides regualar hair cuts, steel gloves, and regular baths *Grins*.

I must say  you Pseudonym, hehe where am i supposed to hold this baby when weaving in the phanny pack that acacea made me? Aww :O joking, your quest was fun as usual.

[ShiffDrgnhrt]

Dont let shiff see it...

[iceyfire]

will he complain about it as much as he did chasing after the goblin army , it would take a miracle for anyone to pry this baby from her, most likely her dead body.

[ShiffDrgnhrt]

not gonna say much of anything else, just be forewarned...

[iceyfire]

Hehe, well i have found some information, i wonder if these creatures are playable... I know not under the standard character submissions but this is somewhat a special case i think.

Gnoll characters possess the following racial traits.

Hehe, well i have found some information, i wonder if these creatures are playable... I know not under the standard character submissions but this is somewhat a special case i think.

Gnoll characters possess the following racial traits.
-Strength +4, Constitution +2, Intelligence -2, Charisma -2.
-Size Medium.
-A gnoll's base land speed is 30 feet.
-Darkvision out to 60feet
-Racial Hit DIce: Begins with two levels of humanoid, which providies 2d8 hit dice, a base attack bonus of +1, and base saving throw bonuses of Fort +3, reflex + 0, and will +0
-Racial skils a gnolls humanoid levels give it skill points equal to 5 x (2 + int modifier) class skills are listen and spot.
-A gnolls humanoi levels give it one feat.
- +1 natural armor bonus
- automatic languages: Gnoll, and bonus ones are Common, elven, goblin, ogre, and draconic.
- Favoured class is ranger
- Level adjustment is + 1

Gnoll Feats
These special feats are available to gnolls.

Beast Run (General)
Gnolls can learn to run very fast on all fours.
Benefit: When empty-handed, you can crop to all fours and move with a speed increase of +20 ft. You are not considered prone when you do this, and you need not perform any kind of action to stand up.

Bite (General)
Gnolls can learn to use their natural fangs in combat.
Benefit: You can use your fangs in combat. Your jaws do 1d6 damage and you are considered armed when using them. They count as your primary attack when used, but may not be used together with other attacks. You may use your bite when grappling.

Bite Trip (General)
You can pull down foes that you have successfully bitten.
Prerequisite: Bite.
Benefit: A gnoll that hits with a bite attack can attempt to trip the opponent as a free action without making a touch attack or provoking an attack of opportunity. If the attempt fails, the opponent cannot react to trip the gnoll.

Scent (General)
Gnolls can train their natural scent to great levels.
Benefit: Gnolls with this ability automatically sense whenever a creature comes within 30 ft., and can automatically pinpoint such creatures as a standard action, even if they are concealed or invisible. The range of this ability is doubled upwind and halved downwind. Incorporeal creatures cannot normally be detected by smell.

Slightly more civilized gnolls can work as scouts, animal trainers, forest wardens, trappers and hunters. In cities the try to become urban predators, running prostitution rings, protection rackets, repossession services or working as bounty hunters or enforcers. Some become spiritual advisors for people looking to reconnect with nature.

Yet other gnolls take more after wolves than hyenas, and are more lawful in alignment. These like to form orders and companies with military discipline, though they are still rather wild and violent.

Personality:
Gnolls are very much like wild beasts, motivated by their base urges. They have a need to personally hunt and kill, but this can be channeled into other dominance games. They dislike a regular schedule and labor of any sort. A gnoll is governed heavily by its stomach, and grows increasingly aggressive when hungry- wise gnolls and their friends always have some junk food lying around.

Physical Description:
Gnolls have the heads of beasts, which they carry low and horizontally. Their bodies are furred and beastlike as well. Most gnolls resemble jackals, with long, mangy, spotted fur. Some have a leaner body and more even coloration and resemble wolves or shorter fur and snouts resembling jackals. A few gnolls resemble rams or lions.

Relations:
Gnolls get along with Bugbears and orcs, and can ally with humans. Elves and gnolls have a strange love-hate relationship, as they both love the wild and to express their emotions, but in very different ways. Gnolls have a very hard time relating to soulmechs because of their lack of instinct and wild passion, and many gnolls simply refuse to accept that soulmechs are even sentient.

Alignment:
In the wild gnolls are chaotic evil with abandon. In civilization, gnolls can channel their wild natures in other ways. Few abandon both the ways of chaos and those of evil, however, so lawful good gnolls are really, really rare.
Gnoll Lands: Gnolls prefer to live on the fringe of civilization, so that they can raid and flee back into the wilderness when they want to. But the only lands gnolls can really call their own are the deep wilderness. In the empire, gnolls rarely have their own lands, but sometimes they can form a ruling elite and gain control of an area with a mixed population.

Religion:
Gnolls honor TheDestroyer and sometimes TheStormlord or TheAdversary. The more lawful among them honor TheWarrior. Some become clerics of these deities and create personality cults around themselves, but most ignore religion unless they have need of divine favor.
Language: Gnolls speak gnoll and common. Many also speak undercommon or whatever languages are spoken locally.

Names:
Gnolls have descriptive names, either personal characteristic or something they have done. Typical names include Many Whelps, Strongarm, Bigaxe, Dwarfsplitter, Read Ear, Leaps-the-Clouds and so on.

Adventurers:
Gnolls consider their regular lifestyle to be one of adventure, where they must constantly strive to stay on top of things or sink into the quagmire of their surroundings. While there is some point to this argument, true gnoll adventurers are few and far between. Some occasionally work as guides and aides to wilderness expeditions, but this is usually only temporary.

[iceyfire]

Hehe, well i have found some information, i wonder if these creatures are playable... I know not under the standard character submissions but this is somewhat a special case i think.

Gnoll characters possess the following racial traits.

[Pseudonym]

... They dislike a regular schedule and labor of any sort. A gnoll is governed heavily by its stomach, and grows increasingly aggressive when hungry ...

Who knew? I've been a gnoll all my life!

[lonnarin]

Raising a gnoll is a lot like raising a baby polar bear.  At first they're so cute and fluffy, manageable if you're quick enough to not let them teethe on you or eat your favorite boots.  Then it gets bigger, scruffier, uglier, meaner... and the next thing you know you're trying to scratch behind its ears and pull back a bloody stump where your hand used to be.

My advice is to either kill it now, or at least release it into the wild before it reaches 4 feet tall.

[Honora]

A gnoll would be best off with it's own kind.  Even if it has enough intelligence to function in society, its race will make it an embittered outsider forever.  Half-orcs, dark elves, deep dwarves, and half-giants have traditionally had a great deal of trouble being accepted by the "normal" folk of Layonara and a pure-blooded gnoll would have it far worse.

My 2cp .

[Xirion]

But I met some Orc PCs... not many and sure they do have problems, but they exist. Is there such a big difference between pure blooded orcs and gnolls?

[Honora]

From above:

"Gnolls are very much like wild beasts, motivated by their base urges. They have a need to personally hunt and kill, but this can be channeled into other dominance games. They dislike a regular schedule and labor of any sort. A gnoll is governed heavily by its stomach, and grows increasingly aggressive when hungry- wise gnolls and their friends always have some junk food lying around."

Yes, because while orcs are very aggressive and usually evil (okay, I'm a nerd, I looked up the compilation of orc lore on Wikipedia) they are intelligent enough to remove themselves from their baser instincts when a situation calls for it and can reason beyond their immediate needs.

Now I'm up to a True...

[Acacea]

My opinion is kind of long, because for everything I think there are standards and exceptions. There is a slight variance in the 'standard' for gnolls, as in some games/editions, they are barbaric bloodthirsty beasts with stupid cunning, and in others, closer to noble savages that have a form of society different from beasts, though wild. I'm assuming most people prefer the bloodlusting cannibal CE crazy thing stereotype just because its typical, so this is mostly based on that. Naturally if you ascribe to the second version, it might be a little easier.

I think an attempt to raise a 'monster' with heavy wild tendencies is pretty much as earlier stated, like raising a wild animal that is most probably going to bite one day, except worse, because it mixes natural instincts with a sort of monstrous civilization. You don't see a bear using a crossbow, or a gnoll being an animal companion. Attempting to suppress its natural instincts would more than likely end up not only in a lashing out in the future, but an inability to survive if it sought out its own later, basically ensuring that it can live neither in civilization nor with its people...but on the other hand, just giving it back to some gnoll clan is probably a death sentence as well, since they're not exactly so community oriented that they take and care for some other kid, if you even found the tribe it was from.

An example of say, drow might be used - after all, if any race goes beyond mere instinct and environment to be truly, inherently sinister, it would be the dark elves, yet there is good, too. I would say they aren't the same - they are not even remotely beasts, but superbly intelligent. It doesn't mean there should be good all over, but in a lot of ways a very beautiful, intelligent race seems more likely to have a 'good/neutral' exception than a wild, bestial mix of a monster.

That said I think the world is wildly strange, and all kinds of things happen you never would expect. I don't think I'd ever approve a good gnoll character even if it were a playable race, or even TN. CN, probably. An NPC though, well... truly, stranger things have happened. If one or two gnolls in the entire world manage to be wild, non-evil monsters, that aren't ever going to be played and likely not ever possessed, does it make that much of a difference?

That also said, I think that's a matter of destination seeming okay to me, but the road there is an entirely different manner - it seems likely they would die far before that, either quietly killed as a monster by someone not knowing whose it was (or compassion fading in the face of reality), or killed by other gnolls if quietly ditched. In other words, it seems to me like an orphan gnoll is a dead gnoll, with a pretty slim chance of survival as an infant, from any angle.

Because of the outcast problem, and that their favored class is ranger (as well, d20 lists Common, Draconic, Elven, Goblin, Orc as bonus languages so I assume they have sufficient intelligence to learn, if with difficulty and lack of desire to do so), I get the general 'mood' feeling that the rare unusual gnoll we speak of, who kept natural instincts, still learned to survive, was not killed young, etc etc all the other things that make this unlikely, he would probably be your solitary ranger type...let's face it, even human rangers stereotypically don't fit into society and are very alone, offputting, and with a certain savage aspect and dark knowledge about their favored enemies.

Clearly there are shamans though, so a magic user is not impossible either, but we'd be pushing it to breaking with a good aligned gnoll wizard, I think. Divine maybe, though if cleric, again, more likely to worship evil deities, so... seems like a CN druid is best shot for a caster, unless its only a couple levels in it. I'm just churning through my head and can think of several weird but not totally out there non-evil gnoll possibilities (all chaotic, though), but the road there seems pretty hard if you have to actually do it yourself. I could write about one, raise one though, I dunno.

Long story short - I have seen stranger things. One balor in the multiverse getting a drink on the prime, or one very exotic gnoll surviving the weirdest conditions (all our PCs are pretty weird, let's face it, and anyone taking home a gnoll child is above and beyond kooky), does not ruin my fun or break immersion for me. Indeed, exceptions to standards actually reinforce impressions most of the time; it's when you start letting them in as playable goody two shoes and the exception BECOMES the standard, that everything just gets beyond silly.

[Pankoki]

There's plenty of evidence in multiple settings based off DnD where Gnolls act as Chaotic Neutral mercenaries for hire. Their nature might be more savage than the norm, but they are capable of sufficient intelligence to learn a slew of things that sets them beyond just frenzied beasts.

Granted, if Triba stumbled into the house and saw a Gnoll she will likely kill it, but that's not the point! Just because they're naturally misaligned with the  skin society doesn't make it impossible for them to learn a bit more than " and maim".

[Xirion]

Well, I was on pseudos quest aswell. And what about the point that the gnoll is raised by a LG character. Shouldnt it push the allignment abit more towards neutral? So that even TN would be possible?
I dont think anything moving further towards the good or the lawfully axis than neutral woul be possible but I think TN would be possible

[Acacea]

Well, here's the thing. I'm not opposed to a TN alignment per se, though I favor chaotic because of their natures. It's actually the LG parent that seems most likely to work against them. Lawful, Good, how are they going to raise the gnoll in the first place? In my mind - completely based off my opinion, and nothing else, of course - a Toranite is more likely to push a monster more towards chaos because they are so against it. Does that make any sense? Let me give an example.

We're talking about something that is basically a wild beast at heart. Possible to learn new things, be a mercenary in example above, wilderness type even further above, but base instincts are usually pretty savage. Pretend that's a rebel-hearted teenager. With Lawful Good parents of highest moral and ethical expectations. Seeing my problem with the issue, yet?

It's not that the LG parents are evil and oppressive and mind controlled sheep of The Man (though said teen might feel that way), but the odds they are going to be a tight space that the kid pushes away from, right? And if they're not, and are free flowing and help guide without stepping on and don't expect them to be mini-toranites and yadda yadda, they're probably not LG, right?

Basically, I think TN (though never NG...basically I'd probably never go above evil for lawful if I thought it was that way at all, never above neutral for neutral, maybe doubtfully good I guess for chaotic. Maybe. Probably not.) is a perfectly viable for hypothetical weird gnoll, but a Lawful Good adopted parent actually seems like he would have more problems than the other end.

[Xirion]

Toranite? No... sabrissa got the gnoll baby... Ian has nothing to do with it. Or is sabrissa a Toranite?
Well however just wanted to make sure noone thinks I have the gnoll

[miltonyorkcastle]

IF someone doesn't manage to kill the gnoll before it reaches a viable adult age (not just puberty), and the gnoll has enough intelligence/wisdom to understand its odd postion in life, then I am positive that it would also realize it must remain hidden, and well covered up to avoid being outright killed.

The only way such a plight could/would be changed is if the gnoll somehow became famous (not infamous, mind you). There would still be the random danger from someone who hasn't heard of the gnoll, but he/she would otherwise be marginally accepted, and allowed to walk without being completely covered in clothing and a hood.

[lonnarin]

I think maybe if you were evil and wicked enough, you could beat some law into the gnoll in order to make him an unwavering guard dog, like the Overlord would do.  If you were nice enough, it could learn some balance and perhaps even some goodness in its heart, put still be prone to outbursts when agitated.  I'm not saying its entirely impossible to change them, just that it's one of the most difficult races to socialize in D&D existence.  Gibberlings would possibly be worse, I don't think you could even shut those up by beating them, they'd just sit their shrieking reflexively.

If I were to try and socialize a gnoll, I'd probably start off by chaining him to a tree off in the wilderness and feeding him a lot, patting him and telling him he's  good dog.  Then I'd have an invisible wizard standing by to zap him with a lightning bolt and vanish before he noticed anyone was there when he was bad.  That way he wouldn't identify its punishment with me or any other humans, but as coming from some intangeable cosmic force that couldn't be bitten, and would grow fearful of its own outbursts.  Enchantments affecting his mind might also help keep his rages in check... maybe deep hypnosis which triggered a seeded response.  Of course, in all cases I would make for darn certain my gnoll was properly fixed... heheh.  That should take some of the fight out of him.

[Pseudonym]

Just a random thought, maybe a little off base as it's been a while since I have played a good aligned character, however I shall pop it down anyway.

One thing I have often thought about a 'good' character is that they would constantly give people a chance, no matter how many times they are disappointed or it comes back to bite them on the bum? To me, this is one of the things that separates a good character from a 'less good' one.

ie. Yes, 99.9% of gnolls are nasty, incorrigible, mean-spirited, completely unredeemable (irredeemable?)  but that doesn't mean that I, as a 'good' person should stop holding out hope that the very next one I meet doesn't deserve a chance to show otherwise. Yes, 'less good' folks grow cynical and give up on a race (or person or religion or whatever) but not me. I shall reach out my arms in friendship and though I will be slapped in the face 999 times, maybe the thousandth will return the embrace.

Just a thought.

[lonnarin]

I think evil people would enjoy rearing the gnoll far better than good people.  Good people will be terminally upset when it embarrasses them in church and eats their mother in law, and would blame themselves for the pervieved moral failings of its natural instinct.  An evil person on the other hand would have a blast suiting them up in spiked platemail, shocking the alpha-male pack obedience into them and unleashing them frothing into bloody mayhem.  Since they are more self-serving like the gnoll, they would understand it's selfish motives and need for slaughter.  Good people would try to change it, evil ones would want to exemplify its nature.

Druids and Rangers I would also see as ideal parents.  For one, they would keep it out of the cities or dungeons to frollick around the countryside, hunting prey for dinner like any other animal.  It has beastlike qualities that would be easy to for them relate to.  And, gnolls' favored class is ranger for a reason... the hunt is in their blood.