fair arrow and bolt pricing

[dadunmir]

I'm looking for some help here.  I've made a bunch of oak arrows and have a few interested in purchasing but do not want to rob them.  For copper tipped oak arrows the lens says they are worth about 30 gp an arrow so a bundle of 99 goes for 3000gp.  I've also got some bronze ones that are considerably more expensive (about 80 gp an arrow).  Do these prices seem fair to anyone?  I can understand why the bronze are considerably more expensive than the oak as they add an extra 2d4 to a enemy type but really, 80 gp? I looked up some past posts and found some information on hickory ones going for about 500 per bundle of 99 (i think maybe less).  I know the lens is a guide and some items like potions can be a bit overpriced by the lens.  Just curious.

[ZeroVega]

  Arrows unlike their counterparts bows are considerably rarer on the market. Most people don't waste time with them and just get mighty to add to their bow, take the ranger class (favored enemy), or are arcane archers. A serious archer can go through as many as a few thousand arrows per day (I know I did). Most won't waste huge amounts of money buying them, or time making them. So I'd say until a little system is worked out between wood crafters for arrows (like scribers and scrolls), just find a nice medium between both you and the buyers offers and make it reasonable. (3k for copper and 8k for bronze is over priced in my opnion)

[dadunmir]

*slaps forehead*

Mighty...favored enemy...forgot about these. Guess that shows I haven't played many a ranger in my days.  Those are good points. Thanks. Just curious though, what is the max mighty bonus in our low magic world and the lvl requirement (if you know them)?

[ZeroVega]

  Max bonous on everything is +3. +3 Weapons, +3 AC to armor, +3 to saves, +3 to Ability Scores (with the exception of some items that may give more than three but they're not to my knowledge craftable).
    So there's a +1, +2, and +3 mighty for you. Also you can get compound, or if you're skilled enough just go ahead and pop a little fire or electric enchantment on it. +2 Element isn't that good, but it's fixed damage (no dice rolls) and they're cheap.
  ZV-

[dadunmir]

ZV, any information on the publishing of the your rough pricing guidlines.  I found the thread which is most helpful and again was curious.  Although I did notice no arrows on it.  Perhaps if others can chime in...we might be able to add them as well as a few other items.  *thinks a bit* Unless as you stated earlier they are just too rare of an item.  Anyone?

[ZeroVega]

  Most of these are just my opinions which are based of my observations of posts and in game talk. I haven't really gotten deep into the price guide however I plan to see if I can't get some input from the big crafters of each craft and throw something nice together.
    I'd say it's not so much that arrows are rare but that they just go so fast that no one cares to make them. For instance as I stated earlier, many archers go through 1'000+ arrows a RL playing day. Buying 80'000 gold worth of bronze tipped oak arrows (that'd be about 1'000 arrows) would be kinda silly if you can buy the same amount of normal arrows for 10 gold.
    Arrows should be a hot comodety, however this world is supposed to be at least partially realistic and in order to make it so fairly large amounts of items need to be gathered to make arrows. My advice, until the wood workers of Layonara can get together would be, don't sell arrows of oak or lesser quality for more than 2'000 gold (even that is very high) and get a few opinions from people, perhaps get the adverage pricing for them and go from there.
  ZV-

[dadunmir]

heh...I think I had a discussion with some one and after openly acknowledging the over pricing of the lens for these I came up with a starting price below the 2000 gp mark. I think I started at 1500. I'll think about this some more as that 1500 still seems high given the 10 gp comment. I never bothered to look at these from the vendor 1 gp per 99 of ammo?  Thanks for having the discussion.

[Talan Va'lash]

The reason that Talan rarely buys or makes nice arrows is that they are a LOT of work to make (and therefore, also expensive to buy.)  I shoot 40 arrows per turn.  Thats 1 branch, 1 ingot, 1 mold, 1 feather, every 30 seconds.  I think a good solution to this would be to make the lower end arrows craftable in bigger batches.  All arrows work in batches of 20 now.  Hickory arrows could be done in batches of 50.  Its one damage, not a big deal, but using crafted arrows would give you an edge over normal arrows.  Oak and mahogany (and yew, but... I dont think anyones going to make arrows out of yew for a while) add substantial amounts of damage perhaps batches of 40 and 30 respectively.  These suggestions might be a bit on the high side, but I think that making the batches bigger would make crafting arrows a more viable endeavor.

[Cp_Winddancer]

I am interested in buying Bolts.  Contact me and we can discuss price.  Also bring a list of what you can make if you wish to deal. 
  -Marcus Perrin-

[Pankoki]

Any serious archer makes all the arrows by themselves. Unfortunately this means that they have to make tons and in huge batches. Lots of attacks, and rapid shot means you get to go through arrows like mad.
  The cool thing is that the fletching system we have allows for moderation. No reason to use those bronze arrows against say undead, when they are best used against Animals. So you get to decide. All I can tell you is that mostly, or at least the archers I know, Including my own character, do all the stuff on their own. Otherwise we would go broke because there's no way in hell I'm paying more than 300 gp on anything thats not made from mahogany.

[ZeroVega]

  Am I the only one who finds it truly amazing that GMs like Pankoki and L can say in just a few senteces what took me several paragraphs to say? And that's why I'm not a bonafied genius yet..... because my 3 page summary has a font size of 8 using Time's New Roman with nothing bold and as little space as possible in between all the words and sentences.

[dadunmir]

A lot of work for sure. Talan's got a good point about those hickory arrows adding just a point of damage.  It almost seems senseless to craft them or sell them for that matter with such a tiny reward.  All that work for something you can get in hundreds for a few gold from a merchant.  Even selling the copper tipped oak ones for a gp each seems to be pushing the limit of reason and it takes a bit of skill to make these at a reasonable success rate.  Making the oak shafts actually requires a bit of skill as a wood crafter. Add to this the smelting and the tinkering.

[Talan Va'lash]

The problem with trying to use the different arrows against different things, is that when you run out of arrows it pulls a stack completely randomly from your inventory and uses those.  Acctually, I've tested this quite a bit, and it seems worse than random.  it acctually calculates which arrows you dont want to use and puts those in your quiver.  Putting the arrows you dont want to use in a box or bag doesnt help either, it draws from those as well.

What would be absolutely great is if there is a way to hack the inventory screen so that the three ammo slots work like  the three slots in Baldur's Gate.  Any type of ammo can be put in any of the slots, and the first slot is shot first, then the second, then the third, so you can line up which stacks to use next.  That way I would only have to "tend to my arrows" every 7.5 turns instead of every 2.5 (ie constantly.)

[Pankoki]

Its called inventory management Talan. You gotta throw away all those useless rings you have and actually concentrate on whats going to make you effective. I do inventory management mid-combat just so that I keep myself busy and attentive. It pays off at the end since I know where everything is and how to make it efficient.

[J-ser]

How do you add on the elemtal enchanments? It might help to have a few magic arrows around.

[Variable]

To add an elemental enchantment to arrows you just use it on the stack, probably on a stack on 99, because you wouldn't want to waste it on a smaller stack.

And i'm not sure if elemental enchantments stack with custom arrow damages. But try it and find out.

*grins* i'll sell you some enchantments if you want them

[J-ser]

And how much would the enchanments cost?

[Filuviel]

Elemental damage don't add with special arrows damage, so use elemental rods only on ordinary arrows. If you are not an enchanter it will be really expensive, from 3000 to 15000 coins depends on the rod level and the elemental type.

[silverblades]

Any chance of raising the price of the standard arrows or lowering the quantity of the one gp per 99 price. This might help the sales of crafted arrows and benefit those that do the crafting. Your right its alot of work crafting hickory arrows to find out no one wants to pay for all your hard work,and you get very little benefit from it (+1dmg). Even those that cant craft their own dont want to pay any where near the price the lense says...
The system was changed for bow strings, could we also change it to help the market on crafted arrows and bolts.?

[Variable]

silverblades - 7/4/2005  6:25 PM

Any chance of raising the price of the standard arrows or lowering the quantity of the one gp per 99 price.

I think that the price is already 6 gold per 99 arrows. I still purchase(or trade for) crafted arrows because they deal so much more damage then plain arrows. Such as an extra 1d6 bludgeoning damage (these are copper tipped mahogany raven tailed) I think the extra damage is enough of an incentive for purchasing them. I do agree that the lens price is too much for a useable item, but there is really nothing that can be done to change that.