Listen Checks

[Jaigan]

If said person wears gold fullplate armor with a helm, then 2 weeks later said person shows up someplace else with different silver fullplate with a different style helm your not gonna recognize him. when he talks you still won't know simple becuase the helmit is shaped differently therefore changing the ammount of muff and echo comming out of it.
 
 I can see most people still have the superman adventurer system in full swing. you read fantasy novels, watch movies, and read history books it's pretty obvious how easy it is/was to fool people especially back in the midevil times. Now of course there is always a few exceptions but not in the way it's being played out in game. If you want some evidence on how people are metagaming the "knowing who you are" get 2 people one a normal elf and one a darkelf and slap a hood on both of them and walk up to people and you'll notice 9/10 of them somehow sniff out the darkelf even though the guy next to him is wearing the same thing they don't get harassed. I've seen it happen a few times myself I even had to step in and say "hey I'm wearing a helm too some people just like it that way" just so the darkelf could still hang out and have fun.
 
 
 but hey that's just how it works in the real world and most fantasy novels maybe here on Layo it's perfectly natural to have "spidersense" to sniff out evil races hehe :p
 
 
 Also as a reminder, Cities have people, even though you don't see them they do in fact have lots of people moving around them, your average cloak, coat and armors are not all custom made they are in fact very popular for adventurers so just becuase you see said person wearing dark coat and hood you remember that dark coat and hood on said person so you know who they are, that's not remembering that said person is 1 of hundreds of people wearing that dark coat and hood. There is just know way your going to remember every person wearing a dark coat and hood just aint happening unless you got maybe an INT of 100 or have photographic memory supported in your char Bio lol.
 
 
 the bit about I remember how they walk and act and this and that, I can agree with to a point, however if they are just showing up and not the focus of attention it's very unlikely you'll notice any sort of trait, and even more so did you emote the notice? I do think you should always emote a triat so there is a log to support your char noticing. at the same time did said char emote a trait to begin with?
 
 
 *A man wearing a dark coat and hood silently walks into the tavern, like a panther stalking it's prey, he goes to the back where its darkest and leans on the wall casually watching over the patrons drinking their ales and eating their meals, when asked for somethign to drink he simple nods a no and ignores the barmaid*
 
 
 In that, we can clearly see some traits, the way he walks, the fact he preferes the back of the tavern to be alone and not noticed. That he is watchful, and he only talks when needed. the chances of remembering this person is pretty good if you in fact notice him that night.
 
 
 *while drinking her ale she notices the man in a dark coat and hood enter the tavern and make his way to the back where the lights are dim, she takes an interest at the way he walks and his ever watchful eyes as well as the way he brushes off the barmaid with a nod*
 
 
 Now, this women can in fact notice this man at a later date, why because she did in fact have something to notice, as well as emoting the notice. People hiding their identity need to emote more, people notcing need to emote it, why? lets start with the number one reason, We are an RP server!! haha. This thread has gone from one side being too agresive to the other side not trying hard enough, but really both sides are not being fare to each other, emote, emote, emote! give us something to work with, and in return let them get away with things that you should probably not be able to notice. it's all about fun and in an RP world I think having my char not know is just as fun as having him know.
 
 That's just the way I see it anyways.:p

[Falonthas]

another thing being left out here that some chars have is another sense sometimes forgotten

smell

mages in general carry components
therefore they have a residual scent upon their hands and clothing no matter what color clothing

just like rangers and druids will have scents like their companions, or where they live(i.e. a wolf pack having a pack scent)

mages smell like what they use most of
if you use fire spells im sure you smell faintly of smoke and ash

if you summon dead things often
guess what your going to have a residual odor of dead things
why
your around them alot

and those who use their noses may not place the exact smell for what it really is
but they know when and who around they smell it
and it would stick out no matter your outfit

unless you bathe after every spell casting session, and always wear fresh clothing

but we are adventurers
how many times have we spent days in our clothes and gear
trapsing around swamps and caves and the wilds

[Krell Himmler]

Whilst I do agree that smell/sound are ways of having a general idea of who a person is, I don't think it's enough to go:

Hmmmm I smell death, That must be Killy Mc Necro the guy from 227 Prantz!

Whilst I also think sound is somewhat of an indicator, I don't think it's foolproof way of knowing who someone is, I think it's more *that voice sounds familiar* unless you know them very well.

Just leading to where I throw a few ideas up:


1). Knowing my Scent: Perhaps you get say, a +5 on the opposed bluff check to represent the familiar spells, tying into the overall picture as to who the person may be.

2). Knowing by sound:Perhaps the same as above, perhaps bonus's ranging from +1 to +10 depending on familiar, +1 being someone you met once or twice/didn't speak much, up to +10 for family/close friends and such. I also think that it would be more likely an intelligence check because you arn't trying to hear the voice, but trying to remember it.

3) Opposed bluff checks to detect a lie, normally it's sense motive in DnD, but seeing as skills oppose skills I think that opposed bluff makes the most sense personally *shrugs*.

4) Final point: With bluff checks, do people think every sentence should involve a bluff check, or just once at the start of a meeting to assume an identity and then say, a bluff check whenever someone lies? Making a bluff check with every sentence is tedius and will slow RP down to a crawl.

5) Seeking consensus, do people believe it's bluff or perform for disguises, in PnP there was a disguise skill I *think*, so does it make sense to use perform? Bluff is about lies and deceit, perform is about being flamboyant and entertaining, assuming an actors role, perhaps perform may also work to some level of deceit, and could be used, to help one lie, not sure on thoughts on this one. But I don't think perform should be the *only* skill to disguise ones self. For an example of my thoughts, I'm sure an assassin is great at hiding his identity, assuming other identities when necessary and staying out of people's minds, but I'm quite sure he fails epically at singing, acting and playing the violin. However, I wonder how well a performer does at disguises and lies without repetition and practice?

Also, I just wanted to mention, that not every single thing needs a dice roll, sometimes it can resolve deadlocks, but to dice roll constantly remove the ability of one to decently roleplay a character to their own vision of what it may/should be and what it may/should do. Today I informed one that they didn't need a will check to say no to alcohol and that I can't make a roll to force it onto them. I think a word of advice from the DMG and PHB is worth it here, skills can't force one into actions or substantially change a course of events, they arn't magic, they are mundane, persuade isn't a substitute for enchantment magic. Also, people should remember that sometimes, characters will have some bonus's to their skills in certain situations. If I'm in the dungeon, as today and people saw me with the book, then I say I don't have it, they should have a bonus to their opposed bluff skill against me saying I don't have it, just my $1.50

[minerva]

:p   You're looking for consensus in a forum of thousands ?[well maybe 100's active]  Sheesh ...trying being on a quest of more than 2 players and finding a consensus...:p

[Krell Himmler]

:p   You're looking for consensus in a forum of thousands ?[well maybe 100's active]  Sheesh ...trying being on a quest of more than 2 players and finding a consensus...:p

I can try ^^

[Gulnyr]

when he talks you still won't know simple becuase the helmit is shaped differently therefore changing the ammount of muff and echo comming out of it.

This was previously asked and answered in a thread specifically for this point, appropriately titled Does a mask or helm alter how your voice is heard?  In case you don't want to check that thread (which is pretty slim, anyway), this is the final word from The Man himself:

And no, it would not muffle/change your voice enough to disguise or alter etc. Unless it was magically enhanced to do so.

[Acacea]

I don't think it is fair to require a perform roll from someone with no access to the skill. So, I would probably use some form of bluff or something, even though I think perform would be useful. For someone who DOES have perform available, I would use that, with bluff added if they were actively deceiving someone rather than just trying to "be different than they normally are' in voice, appearance, and mannerisms.

Someone with an insane bluff can just look and act a bit different and lie like crazy to explain the difference, because they are intimately familiar with deception and how to make the impossible seem reasonable. Even if they are initially thought of as looking "like that other guy," it will all sound a perfectly plausible mistake after he explains, whereas an epic performer (yet not so good bluffer) seems less likely to be mistaken for himself in the first place by outward appearances. However, he would most likely lack the ability to recover from recognition when it does occur, lacking the skills in deception required. (Edit as example - my bard used to love making aliases and was recently so absent minded that she forgot to ever start her performance at a rather crucial time. She was almost killed for it because she was frantically thinking of a way to answer a question truthfully so as to not be obviously lying...it would never have been a problem if she'd been in the role to begin with.)

Just my opinion on that. I think they go well together but serve different purposes. Perhaps an epic perform would in reality, just be significantly lowering the bluff check needed. So if you needed to bluff your way through something that would normally require a very high skill, your odds would be greatly improved if you had an awesome performance to add to it? But you'd still have to bluff eventually? Just something to think about, I guess.  

On the topic of recognizing voices, I would agree that some people do voices and other audible things better than visuals, and forget names. Absent minded bards in particular would probably be more likely to think "that guy sounds familiar" than "oh, it's my uncle Joshua, he's wearing his yellow tie again today!"

I do think most people fall into the latter category, though.

[Honora]

Hmmmm I smell death, That must be Killy Mc Necro the guy from 227 Prantz!

HEY!  I kicked that guy out and I'm still trying to get the smell out of the upholstery.

[miasma_hemlock]

Or...

How about putting away the dice?  If someone seems to be "up to something" then let it play out.  Since stealing and killing characters isn't allowed here it's not like you're in danger.  If it doesn't affect your character directly (and being in a party together isn't "directly", I mean your own character's storyline) I say you should let them do what they need to do, and maybe let your character be fooled a bit.  If you feel you must call them on it remember it could always lead to a bigger and better confrontation later on..

Seriously.  Just let the darn scene or storyline happen.  If someone's acting deceptive then try to trip them up in conversation, or have your character grow slowly more and more suspicious, or do about a hundred other things that are a lot more interesting than listen and perform checks.  It's so much more rewarding if it's handled creatively.

[Falonthas]

umm killing isnt allowed?

i agree with all but that line in your post

especially since khuren is a convicted killer

[merlin34baseball]

OK... guess I'll add two cents or maybe a whole half dollar.

These are my feelings, basically, I'm sorta tired of being told that I can't recognize someone because their robes are dyed a different color, especially when said person addresses my character by name. I send a polite tell asking if I recognize the character that I have met maybe literally 20-30 times IG, and am told no... he's wearing different robes.

Now... so my character has to act like he just fell off the turnip truck that drove in from the back woods cause evidently he's too stupid to recognize someone who addresses him BY NAME! because the robes are picked two selections over in the craft hall and its light purple instead of dark purple this week..................see how silly that is?

And by no means am I offended by the player of this PC, we even chat a bit through tells about whatever...

I just want a ROLL I can use so my character with a 16 INT doesn't have to act like a..... an idiot.

:)Thanks for the time!

[Jon Heinrich]

To be honest, I've read all everyone has to say and let me tell you that between the two opposing sides it seems ones trying to get a little slack and the other wants to have fun and go into this whole story thing.



I wish people would perhaps be a little subtle about their accusations in this game.

To make up an RP excuse just to go after someone, is kinda lame.

To elaborate, if someone did something you know of OOC, making up an RP excuse just to try to get a bit of fun at someone else's expense.

I've seen this done a few times, not to me, but it has been done.  This is not an accusation, this is a statement by the way, I've seen it done.

I guess the important thing here is that we're all going to have to try to monitor ourselves, and to make sure we don't do anything that selfish and uncalled for.

I hope you all will build up the story around said player, and plan it a little better so the RP quality increases.

Humbly Requested-

Heinrich

[Gulnyr]

1) I'm not sure how you read 'slack' on one side and 'fun/story' on the other.  Can you explain that, please?

2) Are you talking about in-game character accusations or accusations against players?  My guess is the former.  

In my opinion, accusations against other players should never be subtle, but should always be clear and precise.  There's no reason to beat around the bush if something is wrong and needs to be corrected.  There's no reason to be subtle if you are trying to clear something up with another player.  A couple of respectful PMs can go a long way to fixing a problem that could eventually ruin the fun of several people.

Accusations in-game against characters can go infinite ways.  It all depends on the character doing the accusing.  Huzzah for variety!  Huzzah for roleplaying!

3) Allowing OOC differences to affect IC RP is pretty low if it's on purpose, yes.  

4) I'm guessing that you actually meant "I hope you all will build up the story around said character."  While that's a fine request, it's the responsibility of each of us to develop our own characters, and other players can only have their characters react to our characters because of our characters' actions.  If you leave it up to others, they will probably take the shortest route; not only is that human nature, but they have their own characters to develop.  If they wanted to develop yours, they would be playing him already.  

If you want your character to be disguised, roleplay the disguise with all the toppings; don't just change clothes and expect that to be enough.  If you want your character to be the pinnacle of light and glory, roleplay light and glory for all you're worth; don't just grab a Toranite shield and expect others to stare in awe.  It's the responsibility of the player of a character to present the character as he wants the character to be seen.  It's a two-way arrangement - you put in effort and effort will be returned.

Be prepared, though, because it doesn't always work the way you might want, especially if you've already left an impression.  I've tried to play my character in such a way that she is seen in a certain light, but some people see something entirely different.  Maybe it's the vague nature of the text, so that the other player read something differently than it was meant.  Maybe there was something happening with my character that the other character didn't know about, which left a poor impression.  Maybe the other character has some reason to dislike my character that has nothing to do with my play at all.  Maybe there's an OOC problem that bled over; unfortunate, but it happens sometimes.  Nothing is going to be perfect.

[Dorganath]

Undeleted and locked, to preserve the actually useful information for future reference.