Evil/Lawful Rofireinite vs Good/Lawful Rofireinite

[davidhoff]

This was a question that came into my head based on some other threads I've been reading.

What is the difference between a evil/lawful Rofi and a good/lawful Rofi?  My take on it would be they both are bound to uphold the laws of the territory because upholding laws is their highest calling.  For example, if they were in a evil city run by the evil king and the king's law was "whatever I say it is" and the king decided that every first born was to be sacraficed to his glory...then I guess both the G/L and E/L Rofi would accept this as proper?  Maybe the G/L Rofi might not agree with the law, but would not oppose it?  Or would the G/L Rofi disagree with the law, but follow it, and try to lobby to have it changed?  Or would the G/L Rofi not follow this law at all because it is evil and he doesn't recognize it as law?

Just wondering...thanks

[Xaltotun]

For me, the answer is quite straight forward. The LG Roffie would accept that the king's word is law, but would have to leave the kingdom as he could not in all conscience carry out those orders. The LE Roffie would be happy to obey since it is the law and since it squares his with her own feelings too.

Reverse this and the LE Roffie would struggle with an LG king's demands and leave. If either carried out the opposite aligned king's demands, then their alignment would have to change, I would say.

Both may try to convert the king or their comrades, but if the overwhelming balance was towards one or the other, then the opposite good/evil should struggle to convert the mass.

[Aphel]

In my opinion, if the King shows that his law is chaotic in the core, meaning that he himself does not obey it (eg. sacrificing his own firstborn), even the LE Rofirein would work against the king as he is violating the law. For a Follower of the Lord Protector, the law of the Lord Protector (and the principles that go by it) should supersede any and all law of the realm.
Even a LE Rofirein could work against a NE king. Isn't evil what methods somebody chose to reach her or his goals?

[Script Wrecked]

This was a question that came into my head based on some other threads I've been reading.

What is the difference between a evil/lawful Rofi and a good/lawful Rofi?  My take on it would be they both are bound to uphold the laws of the territory because upholding laws is their highest calling.  For example, if they were in a evil city run by the evil king and the king's law was "whatever I say it is" and the king decided that every first born was to be sacraficed to his glory...then I guess both the G/L and E/L Rofi would accept this as proper?

No.

 Maybe the G/L Rofi might not agree with the law, but would not oppose it?

No.

 Or would the G/L Rofi disagree with the law, but follow it, and try to lobby to have it changed?

No.

 Or would the G/L Rofi not follow this law at all because it is evil and he doesn't recognize it as law?

Yes.

Just wondering...thanks

Previous [THREAD=259202]discussion[/THREAD] regarding being Lawful Good and bad laws.

[drakogear]

Perhaps not much of an answer but... (just for the fun of it ) My thoughts on this...

In, short: How they deal with bribery.

Man tries to bribe a LG Rofi and gets hauled away in chains.

Man tries to bribe a LE Rofi and the Rofi accepts, pockets the coins and looks the other way. As to tries getting any other witnesses to look away aswell... for a bit more coin.

"Move along people. There's nothing to see here."

In other words, LE Rofi's are the same as today's crooked cops... or so I'd imagine :p

[Pibemanden]

I doubt they are anything like crooked cops, the evil Rofi might take the true and then have the man dragged away in chains anyway. A crooked cop does not care about the law, an evil rofi worships a god who places the law in front of everything else. So the evil Rofi would use the law to his advantage(ie. take the gold), but still follow it by turning the man in and possibly also turning the profit in to the temple.

[Alatriel]

The way I see Lawful Evil and Lawful Good And therefore Lawful Neutral Rofireinites has to do a lot with how punishments are handed down through the courts (or in general)

For example.  A child is caught stealing food from a local vendor because he is hungry.

Lawful Good: The punishment would take into account the child's situation and age and work out a punishment that would correct the infraction by correcting the child's situation at the same time.  Perhaps making them understand that theft is not acceptable by placing the child in the custody of the church and teaching him/her right from wrong while making sure that the child is fed and cared for properly.

Lawful Neutral:  Given the child's age and offense, would have the child work for the food he/she stole to compensate and learn right from wrong through community service and hard work.

Lawful Evil:  Cut off the child's hand because the only way to ensure that the child will never steal again is by harsh punishment.  This way it also sends an example to others that theft will not be tolerated in any form or fashion.


Lawful good sees punishment in redemption and empathic judgments and ways to "heal" the person in order to overcome the situations, where applicable and reasonable, by solving the baseline problem instead of the actual crime.  This does NOT mean that a Lawful Good Rofireinite will not hand down a harsh sentence, but it means that they will look at the person who committed the crime and judge by that as well.

Lawful Neutral sees punishment as needing to be fair across the board.  The best way to show the people that the laws are fair is to make sure that every person and every crime is treated fairly and the same.  They look at the crime, and what is listed to be the fair punishment according to the lands for said crime.  If people are treated differently case-by-case, they start to claim favoritism and discrimination, which undermines the legal system because people no longer have faith in the laws and think that they can talk their way out of punishment if they get caught.  Judgments are balanced and fair, but also consistent.

Lawful Evil sees punishment as needing to be harsh because through harsh punishment people can be controlled through fear.  If they fear the punishment they will not commit the crime.  Each punishment serves to punish the criminal as well as set an example for others to keep them in line and keep a tight control on society.  This way, society remains ordered and strict and easier to control.  This makes society safer, and punishments, though harsh, are for their own good because through absolute control, their lives will be protected.  Individuality breeds chaos, so it is not often accepted or tolerated.

[cbnicholson]

I'm a 100% with Alatriel on this one...surprisingly.

[mixafix]

I think some of the examples are going off point to where the individual has the ability to set the behaviour as opposed to
 
 how does a Rofie, with a certain alignment LE, LG, or LN (who may be a paladin - with further behavioural traits)
 
 deal with a law
 
 (set by someone else) in a place(they [the decider] may or may not work in)
 
 It remains a potentially complex set of circumstances that likely cannot be fully answered as players/GM need to be addressing all these areas of a pc
 
 alignment
 Deity
 Class
 RP perception of an NPC/area
 GM on the day
 Spanners in the works
 
 How long is a piece of string - guidelines are fine but it may just not pan out the way expected on any given day! I would suggest - so relying on it...may not be wise.

[Alatriel]

I think another thing to address, which Mixafix may have been touching on, is that a LE Rofireinite is not necessarily the same as a LE of another deity.  (since this question was specific to Rofie, I didn't bring this up before)  While the guidelines to LE are pertaining to the alignment in and of itself, it's also necessary to take into account in the case of Rofireinites with that alignment that they have TWO sets of restrictions governing their behavior, their alignment, and their religion.  A Lawful Evil person who does not follow Rofirein may work through the system charismatically to make people believe that all problems with society are the fault of some sort of group.  He/She would give them a common enemy and put him/herself as the way to solve that problem by total faith and commitment to him/her as their leader.  Then slowly, things would become more intense with the annihilation of the "outsiders" or the ones that are perceived as the threat or cause of all problems or "evil."

Examples:  Adolf Hitler, Emperor Palpatine, Emperor Jagang (Sword of Truth Series), Magneto.

Another form of LE is those who follow a strict code but choose to not wait for the established law of the land to act because it may be "too slow" or "too ineffective" because the established law may not punish as severely as the person would like.  These may be gang leaders or vigilantes.  With Vigilantes, the difference between a chaotic vigilante and a lawful one is their method and purpose.  A lawful evil vigilante may have decided that a certain group of people or type of people is a problem.  It may be that a band of brigands continuously attack people on a certain road.  The lawful evil vigilante may decide that for the "greater good" he will hunt down and brutally kill every single one of them, securing the road for himself so that he can now ensure that passage through the road is safe- with due respect and tribute to the one who has secured it of course.

There are obviously many different examples of that sort of thing.  The difference with Rofireinites who are lawful evil is that they follow the god of Law.  So their religion dictates to them their behavior as well as their personality.  Their means of behavior inside those double confines leaves less wiggle room.  Rofirein is a protector of the common man, so therefore the lawful evil Rofireinite would still be acting in the capacity of protecting the common man, but they also would not be doing things that are illegal.  They would find ways in each setting to legally enact the harshest way possible, but it would be framed in a manner to educate others that deviating from the Divine Laws was not beneficial for them.  Either way, Lawful Evil tends to be known mostly for it's desire for power, and sustainable power.  Lawful evil Rofireinites would have little tolerance for those that Rofirein does not hold favor for and would probably not be sad to see all of them eliminated completely.  (If the whole world followed Rofirein, we wouldn't have to worry about Corathites or Mistites, or Xeenites, or Pyrthechonites, or any of those other "evil" gods that cause problems and strife and chaos, and we might as well get rid of gods that promote individuality either while we're at it, since they simply confuse people.)  Order above individuality.  Structure over freedom.  People don't need to be free, they need to be controlled- that is how best to protect the common man as per the Divine Law.

Lawful Evil is one of the most difficult powers to remove once in place because most of the time it was put there by the general consensus in a way that was perfectly legal and not only accepted, but often pushed for by the people.  It is often the kind of thing where the population rallies to support this "new regime that will solve all problems" only to find out after they've gotten what they wanted, that perhaps it wasn't the best idea after all.

[gilshem ironstone]

Another form of LE is those who follow a strict code but choose to not wait for the established law of the land to act because it may be "too slow" or "too ineffective" because the established law may not punish as severely as the person would like.  These may be gang leaders or vigilantes.  With Vigilantes, the difference between a chaotic vigilante and a lawful one is their method and purpose.  A lawful evil vigilante may have decided that a certain group of people or type of people is a problem.  It may be that a band of brigands continuously attack people on a certain road.  The lawful evil vigilante may decide that for the "greater good" he will hunt down and brutally kill every single one of them, securing the road for himself so that he can now ensure that passage through the road is safe- with due respect and tribute to the one who has secured it of course.

Example: Dexter Morgan

[willhoff]

Its difficult to have a hard and fast answer on this question I think.  

Seems there are three sources of law: 1) Divine; 2) Government; 3) Personal Code.

For a Rofie it seems that law from Government should trump/be stronger than law from a personal code.  Divine Law, especially for a paladin or cleric, do not conflict with Government as Lore states that Rofireinites shall:

Hold the law above all else at any cost, even if this means bringing loved ones or friends to justice.

A Lawful/Good Rofi would be in quite a pickle if he had to choose between obeying a law he deemed bad/evil.  If he chose to break the law he would be disobeying his divine calling to "Hold the law above all else".  If he follows the law he would be deviating from his "good" alignment.  Which axis, Lawful/chaotic vs. Evil/Good  will he side with?

It even seems that a lawful evil Rofie is a contradiction.  Under Lore as mentioned above it says they should hold the law above all else but under Lore for lawful evil it says that:

Respects honor and self-discipline. Has no time for the law.

A Lawful Evil person with no deity could draw their source of law from either three of the sources I suppose with divine being the least likely.

[Aphel]

"Hold Rofirein's law above all else."

[davidhoff]

It seems that any Lawful Rofie (G,N, or E) would be obligated to uphold the "Law of Land" (whether that be Rael, Brelin, etc).  That is their diety's calling above all else.  The purpose of this is to protect order and prevent chaos.  The character's personal code/law has no bearing in the decision because it is the Law of the Land that has been put in place to promote stability in that particular area.  If they were to fight or disobey the Law of the Land and not uphold it, they would be instigating chaos and unrest...the greatest sin a Rofie can commit.  The L/G or L/N might have issues with an Evil dictatorship, but they would still have to uphold the law.  They could try to change the law through legal and civil appeals/amemdments/petitions, but that would be about it.  When the Rofie church said a while back that it was supporting Rael's war against the dark elf invasion, they didn't just ask L/E Rofies to help Rael, they meant all Rofies.

From Willhoff:

It even seems that a lawful evil Rofie is a contradiction. Under Lore as mentioned above it says they should hold the law above all else but under Lore for lawful evil it says that:

Quote:
Respects honor and self-discipline. Has no time for the law.

A lawful evil Rofie seems to be even more of a contradiction when you throw in another portion of the write-up on lore for Rofireine, as follows:

Aid others whenever and wherever possible as long as it is in accordance with the law and does not make way for acts of evil.

[Gulnyr]

It is silly to bring it down to 'law of the land' level.  What that does is make the Rofireinite faith pointless.  Every kingdom, every town, can make laws, and they will differ depending on the nature of the rulers of those places.  Having Rofireinites go along with whatever local laws exist means making them mindless drones.  Keeping track of a hundred different sets of laws is actually very chaotic, not orderly at all.

What is orderly and sensible is remembering it is a faith, with a very order-loving god of law and justice and protection, and that it is Rofirein's law that should be followed above all.  Sure, follow the laws of mortals as much as you can, but remember they never ever trump Rofirein's law.

You may notice a preference for the chaotic over the orderly in reality.  I can't explain that, though I have complained about it.  Rofireinites are so well-respected around the world that having them run the courts is a show of legitimacy.  Rael didn't wreck the Rofireinite Citadel in Prantz, did he?  Think of Vehl, though.  It's full of people who spit in the face of everything Rofireinites hold sacred.  It's fine to set up a temple there and try to spread the word, but to assist with laws and a system of 'justice' everyone knows to be corrupt to the core is exactly the opposite of what Rofireinites should be doing.  "These laws make a mockery of our Lord Protector and our faith.  We should support them to our dying breath."  Seriously?  Support to the government should be given in proportion to their acceptance and alignment with Rofirein's law and justice.  How does supporting the corrupt government protect the people, or uphold justice?  It's not all about law.  It's not all about court.  Anyone can make laws.  Anyone can run a trial.  It's about Rofirein's law and just trials, and doing things The Right Way.  That's what should be underlying everything, so that it is an orderly church with a firm foundation, rather than a bunch of simpletons following rules because they are rules.

Without going into detail (because, holy cow, would you hate it - you should thank me), the Evil available to Rofireinites is so weak as to be almost indistinguishable from a LN character having a bad day, OR creates situations where the character is essentially a 'tough punishment' machine who seeks such justice as to cause injustice elsewhere, which isn't very Rofireiny, is it?

[Miasma Hemlock]

I'd think things like compassion would come into it.. Say a family is illegally squatting on private property, a LE might kick them out and say "it's your problem", where LG would also force them to leave but would go out of their way to find them somewhere else to live.

Or LG might punish with compassion and try to give criminals a chance at redemption after the fact where LE would be more about strict sentencing and "eye for an eye." In this case LE Rolf types may be more popular with the public who tend to want to see harsh justice instead of a soft heart and second chances.

Also the religion is an organization with ranks and leaders and followers and here is also where you'd see good and evil come to play. LE could be someone who has their eye on rising to the top of the ranks as quickly as possible and will climb over everyone else to do it (in a way that doesn't actually break laws, but is still very selfish.) Where maybe LG doesn't seek power at all and always works as part of a team and puts others before them.

I could actually see the Rolf. church having more LE leaders than LG, because LE tends to be the kind who seeks out power and is willing to do what it takes to get it, where the LG might be more inclined to go out into the world and do good deeds instead.

Or not.. Just some thoughts.

[Dremora]

My two cents concerning what Gulnyr touched on about the RIght Way of doing things and the alignment contradictions. Feel free to dispute this.

Firstly, Gulnyr (and yes my experance in this is near zero and im going on interpretation mostly) said that its about Rofirenite's Laws etc.
I was once told that the Divine Court of which Rofirene was apart of and who set down the Divine Law or whatever is likey to hold sway over any other laws they encounter. Now I dont know the divine law or how clashes may be dealt with when a follower of the gold gets involved. However, tis been stated, a Rofirenite is likely to follow the creed of his god before that of others, especially if they conflict. You set a Rofirenite loose in a corrupt city who no doubt have laws or atleast fronts of laws, I seriously doubt he would care about them. His god's decree comes first.
Like with Vehl, if they reject the Gold, are known for corruption and whatever else, and they place some law down that doesnt coincide with what Rofirenite and the other gods laid out, they arent going to care, a LE might choose to follow it if it serves a decent lawful purpose, and his own goals and not specifically care if its repressive on the victim or unfair in some individual cases. A lawful good may feel obligated to step up and challenge it, on accounts of his 'good' nature and the fact that its technically not a Law endorsed by Rofirien.
But like I said im just making an interpretation of what ive heard and read but ultimately agree with what I skim-read from Gulnyr. Rofirenites put the Gold and his ideals first, the alignments of the individual decide nitty gritty details of how they might react to certain situations, but their decision WILL be affected by their faith and beliefs first, especially if they are clerics or paladins in which case ofcourse the faith restriction comes first and foremost in their minds BEFORE their personal alignment (else your not playing the class).

More generally speaking on alignments of characters; I presume (and hope) that the bullet points on the LORE pages about each alignment combination are a set of guidelines that one must keep in mind when designing the psyche of their character. They should show in some form, maybe not all of them, but a fair number of them in a character's decisions, reactions, personality etc.
That said, they are, to me atleast: guidelines.
If they were not we'd all have a bunch of clones between them and diety restrictions. Each character is free to interpret things differently, react in different ways and sometimes break their normal or expected patterns in special, significant circumstances (especially if they are diety classes; Alatriel has a good example of a Torie paladin and cleric she taught the kiddies at the TLP ). This allows for a diversity in characters but the general consensus is if you make a NG character for example. Dont make him follow the law just cause its the law and especially if its flat out cruel/unjust, and vice versa dont make an NE character who gives away his worldly possessions to a child with big teary eyes simply cause he said please in a cute voice; maybe he does it but considering your alignment, a good reason that benefits them in short or long term is in order dont you think? A good example of NE is Riddick from Pitch Black and Chronicles of RIddick . He's the hero but he's evil aligned, that is obvious.
So long as you relate to most of the guidelines (somehow) in your character's personality and justify why some of them dont apply, your free to decide the loopholes etc. so long as they reasonable.

So two LE rofirenites will put their gods faith first if they are strongly devout, but how they choose to operate within those boundaries is completely up to them unless there are extreme circumstances that would make them turn against the Gold's Law and put themselves or their way of interpreting the 'true purpose' behind a Law before what it actually states (as an example).

I say this because if this were not possible, people would'nt be capable of CDQ'ing falling from grace, alignment shifts or diety conversion.
So if you can reasonably argue the mentality or reasoning behind whatever action your character makes, well you should be alright.

[Gulnyr]

Also the religion is an organization with ranks and leaders and followers and here is also where you'd see good and evil come to play. LE could be someone who has their eye on rising to the top of the ranks as quickly as possible and will climb over everyone else to do it (in a way that doesn't actually break laws, but is still very selfish.) Where maybe LG doesn't seek power at all and always works as part of a team and puts others before them.

I'm not trying to pick on you; this is just a good example of how justice, honesty, and honor are lost in the shadow of law.  Everyone does it, for some reason.

If the faith and church were only about laws and rules, this sort of thing might be true.  But there's so much more to it.  It's not one-dimensional.  "You are a paragon of virtue and honor." "Dedicate your life to justice."  Consider honor, honesty, and justice in the example above.  Yes, elsewhere (aka not in the Rofireinite church) LE might make such a power-grab, but not within the church.  How is clawing over the more deserving honest, honorable, or just?  If a LE character "embellishes" a report to give himself more credit so he appears more eligible for promotion, he has been dishonest, dishonorable, and unjust.  How is that in line with Rofirein's commandments?

It's very hard to play an Evil Rofireinite.  That's not any sort of "I challenge you to try it."  I actually suspect it would be very frustrating.  I have a LG Rofireinite and feel frustrated pretty often, with far fewer problems balancing alignment and dogma.  This is what I was saying before about an Evil Rofireinite basically just being a LN guy having a bad day.  You can't honor Rofirein's dogma and do the usual Evil stuff.  It's a very, very light-weight Evil.

You set a Rofirenite loose in a corrupt city who no doubt have laws or atleast fronts of laws, I seriously doubt he would care about them. His god's decree comes first.
Like with Vehl, if they reject the Gold, are known for corruption and whatever else, and they place some law down that doesnt coincide with what Rofirenite and the other gods laid out, they arent going to care

I wish that were so.  Not very long ago, a PC committed crimes in Vehl and was tried, sentenced, and executed by Rofireinites.  Admittedly, those actions would have been crimes pretty much anywhere, but that's no excuse to help the corrupt government.  If Vehl and Co'rys want the legitimacy of the Rofireinites, they need to clean up and get more in line with Rofirein's law and open, proper justice.  Maybe they're fine with the mob boss style, and that's fine.  The Rofireinites can help the people directly and ignore the government, refusing to grant their stamp of approval.  

The Rofireinites are almost always portrayed as a bunch of Lawful Stupid guys who follow whatever rules are in front of them, which is a shame.

So if you can reasonably argue the mentality or reasoning behind whatever action your character makes, well you should be alright.

The problem here is that mentality and reasoning are fine in-character, but the rules are clear on what is Good and what is Evil out-of-character.  If a character does something Evil, it's Evil no matter how you justify it.  "Yes, I slaughtered the entire orc tribe, but they were raiding the fields and caused starvation in the village!"  Well, good for the villagers, but you still murdered innocent and guilty alike without concern for their lives or dignity - that's Evil.  Good is about respecting all life, not just life that looks more or less like real life humans.

It also doesn't help that people with good imaginations can more easily think of ways to justify anything.  This is part of why no one can pin down Robin Hood's alignment without someone else offering a reasonable rebuttal.

[Dezza]

"The Rofireinites are almost always portrayed as a bunch of Lawful Stupid guys who follow whatever rules are in front of them, which is a shame."


I think that might be just a slight over exaggeration. Unless you are referring to a general perception amongst players who havent had to play a Rofi character before, then I might agree with you. Unless you have made and played a Rofi character its hard to understand the difficulty that often comes with it. Its not only the usual 'good guys' we have to pick on thing its the whole 'lets mess with them by doing things they should react too but cant due to game sutuation' aspect that often frustrates Rofi players, myself included, at times.

Still the bottom line is Rofireinites ultimate goal is to provide stability and harmony through peace and justice for the common man. How they go about providing that is open to debate.

In Rael they chose to accept the new ruler and constantly wear down the administration to the point where Rael realised that unless he met them half way he would never ever be recognised as a legitimate power and would be constantly subject to invasion and assaults from other lands and bands of adventurers. Now one thing Rael and the Rofireinites have in common is an aversion to chaos. Chaos interferes with stability and harmony. Thus there was some common ground in this instance and Rael has come a long way in working to provide order and improve his reputation on the surface. There will of course be those who can never accept what he replaced but the rofireinites have to at some point look to the future and Rael is a stabilising and ordered force for Dreger.

In Vehl the idea was to be the same but its proven to be more difficult than anyone could imagine. Lord Kezed has resisted all attempts by the Rofireinite heirarchy to merge their ideas onto his governing of the city despite years and years of ongoing attempts. While they still do a lot of good there it really is a point of light in an otherwise disparate chaotic darkness. And for those people who can be shown that point of light the Rofireinites realise it they close up shop and move somewhere else would be to betray those who can be saved or who can try and better themselves. Vehl is a tough nut to crack and may never crack, but someone has to try right? If a LG High Justicier ever came to run the temple here things might get a bit different. They would be more forceful in their demands for change and might even condone acts that shift the balance of power to someone more suited to the goals of the church. However to my knowledge LE members of the Rofi faith are not as common as other types which makes this scenario fairly unlikely in the future.

Then you have a nation in Dragonsong where they have embraced the Faith of Rofirein wholeheartedly, as an extension of their own codes for life so that one could almost be forgiven for thinking that any place in Dragonsong was simply an extension of an ideal Rofireinite Faith community. While many citizens do not follow Rofirein they recognise their ideals are the same and want the same outcomes so its a peaceful cooexistance. A model example of what Rofirein can provide and what Rofireinites the world over are striving for.

[Script Wrecked]

It seems that any Lawful Rofie (G,N, or E) would be obligated to uphold the "Law of Land" (whether that be Rael, Brelin, etc).

Rofirein's Law, not "any ol' law".

 That is their diety's calling above all else.  The purpose of this is to protect order and prevent chaos.  

Order is a means to an end, not an end in itself.

The character's personal code/law has no bearing in the decision...

The character's personal code/law (which, as a Rofireinite, should be in some sort of fairly close alignment to Rofirein's values) is what allows the character to distinguish the shortcomings in the Law of the Land as compared to the Divine Law.

... because Law of the Land that has been put in place to promote stability in that particular area.

Not necessarily. Laws can also be means of subjugation.

If they were to fight or disobey the Law of the Land and not uphold it, they would be instigating chaos and unrest...the greatest sin a Rofie can commit.  

They would instigating reform and improvement; any chaos and unrest would be a temporary side effect.

The L/G or L/N might have issues with an Evil dictatorship, but they would still have to uphold the law.  

The good laws, not the bad laws.

They could try to change the law through legal and civil appeals/amemdments/petitions, but that would be about it.  

That would not be the only way.

When the Rofie church said a while back that it was supporting Rael's war against the dark elf invasion, they didn't just ask L/E Rofies to help Rael, they meant all Rofies.

That was a conditional directive and not a carte blanche endorsement of Rael or his regime.