Paladins and Undead slayers

[Hellblazer]

Since I've never tried this before, I thought I'd ask.

Undead slayer:

reaching levels 1, 3, 6, and 9 the character gains new spells per day as if he had also gained a level in his highest caster class (Paladin or Cleric). However, he does not gain increased duration, effects or power.

How does this relates to Paladins. Will the Paladin gain spells slots even if he hasn't reached that spell level yet (since they are pretty far apart). Or will an extra spell slot be available to him when he actually gets to that spell level?

Also

Sealed Life:

Specifics: The character becomes immune to Death spells and effects.

What is considered a death spell? Weird, wale of the banshee?

[davidhoff]

I'm gona skip to your second question about death spells, my guess is that death spells do not include weird, drown or implosion, but death spells would include wail of banchee, destruction, powerword kill, etc.  Also, death spells would include death gazes or death touches (deep spitter spider).  That's not a total list but would be my guess on it.

[lonnarin]

If the Paladin doesn't have spells yet due to his level, I'm pretty certain that he would just come one level closer to having spells on the levels that he got an extra undead slayer spell level. so if he had like 2 levels more of paladin levels to his first spells and he took level 1 of undead slayer, he would be one spell level away from his first spells, if he took undead slayer next level, he wouldn't get his spells yet, since he wouldn't get a spell level, but the one after that (3rd undead slayer) he would get his first spells..

Now what I don't know is how spell mechanics would go about this.  Since you dont get a spell level of power on those levels, would that mean that he would cast them as a 0 level spell?  I suppose that his DC would be flatlined at 10+0levels+wis modifier, and some spells that had per/level strength to them, they would be pretty weak.  Maybe they would do the base 1d8+0 for cure light wounds.  I play a cleric undead slayer, so I at least had some spell levels to work with when I started.

[davidhoff]

Alright, on your first question, you just have to do the math.  At 1, 3, 6 and 9 for undead slayer you act like you leveled your paladin/cleric by one level.  So if you had a Pally 10 and Undead Slayer 3 (total level of 13), you'd have to look at the chart and see if a Pally 12 (10 + 2 caster levels for US) gets new spells.  The duration, effects and power of all your spells would still be based on caster level 10.

[Hellblazer]

Ya same with me with Lex, but a paladin undead slayer is new to me. The duration of the spells don't get extended with UD levels, that I remember from Lex.

[miltonyorkcastle]

While we don't have a list of death spells/effects, I can tell you that Wail is a death effect, but Weird is not (despite the save or die).

Mechanically, death effects are those spells and abilities tagged as such in the script for the spell/ability. Is there some definitive way you can figure out which are and which aren't IC? Not really, short of seeing which ones react to your immunity and which ones don't.

And, no, we're not going to provide an OOC list. :p Discovery is important.

[Hellblazer]

 Wasn't asking for a list, but you pretty much gave me the answer I was looking for.

[Lance Stargazer]

Unless someone with better understanding in systems can correct me, ( or an existing undead slayer )  this is how it should work

Well .. just consider as that at the level you got one Undead slayer level that increases yoiur character spell abilities, look at the table on your original class which kind of spell you would get.

Lets put an example

[TABLE=head;SORT=1]*Level*| *1*| *2*| *3*| *4*  
*8*| 1| 0| -| -  
*9*| 1| 0| -| -  
*10*| 1| 1| -| -  
*11*| 1| 1| 0| -  
*12*| 1| 1| 1| -  
[/table]

Imagine that your paladin is lvl 8 you would have to be able to cast as the table up shows plus wisdom bonus spells. When you get your first Undead slayer level ( character level 9 )  you will get to the next level on your table, This of course will make your paladin gain no spells since the table for paladins and 8 and 9 shows no change. When he reaches to Undead slayer level 3 ( Character level 11 ) he would have the table of a paladin lvl 10  as it shows up. This will be one more spell of second level.

On your second question. It could be as if having Death ward on you permanently, this affects the spells with Death descriptor.

[Hellblazer]

Alright, so if I'm getting this straight, I will be able to cast level 4 spells at level 13 (P8/U4) (which would usually be at level 14 for a pure pally)?

[gilshem ironstone]

The catch is this.  You dont get the spells of the new spell level, only the slots and increased effects from your new spell level.  So until you get to the level a pure paladin can cast the spell level (i.e. level 14 for level 4 paladin spells), then the only use for those slots is meta-magic.

[Hellblazer]

Alright, thanks all, explains it well.

[Lance Stargazer]

No. you'll only got 4 more levels of casting class paladin, which means that you only will reach to the table that a paladin level 12 could aspire ( if you take undead slayer at level 9 ). If you are able to keep taking paladin levels then your progression can increase, but undead slayer will make your spell progression to go slower than a straight paladin.