Author Topic: an Idea for gems crafting. (Read 576 times)

silverdraco · « **on:** August 15, 2006, 02:06:34 pm »

I found something that is kindoff bothering me. I already solved the problem but not to my likking.

my character Sonya Darsus is now manly crafting jewels and with it she has to cut and polish gems. Now in the past i have gotten a lot of greenstone and Malachite gems that I had cut but never got to polishing them. Now I was stuck with about 250 of thise cut greenstone and cut malachite gems and no other option then to polish them or destroy them or sell them to one of those pawn shops.

I was wondering if it might be posible to get an option to be able to smash cut gems and not just flawed and uncut gems?
I misted this option as I could have used the gem dust from the cut malachite gems to make polishing oils.

Stephen_Zuckerman · « **Reply #1 on:** August 15, 2006, 03:57:10 pm »

I want this, too. I've been on too many mushroom runs just because I couldn't do anything else with cut gems.

Variable · « **Reply #2 on:** August 15, 2006, 06:25:48 pm »

Why don't you polish them?

Polished gems can be infused, enchanted, made into jewelry. There are many options for using polished gems. Unfinished Gems have limited uses because they are exactly that, unfinished.

I don't think gem crafting needs anything done to it.

Stephen_Zuckerman · « **Reply #3 on:** August 15, 2006, 07:02:29 pm »

Well, yes, but Pyyran RARELY has the metals to make fine gems into jewlery, and he can't infuse. So getting gem dust out of the bargain sounds great. Also, polishing oil is at a premium for him.

Jilseponie Wyndon · « **Reply #4 on:** August 15, 2006, 11:58:24 pm »

I understand where Pyyran is coming from and I had seen elsewhere a machine that will grind up any kind of gem, (Can't recall where now) whether it be polished, enchanted, infused . . and when used gives out one bag of dust. Its about the same effect as if someone was to take a hammer or chisel to the gem. Anything you pound will get you a little dust and chunks, thats why the one bag.

Whereas crafting them with the current system as a mineral into dust , you work at it and if successful you get multiple bags.

So I think a small grinder placed in the crafthall that would recognize gems and minerals only and give you the appropriate dust would be a help to those like Pyyran. Besides, instead of saving these enchnated or fine gems for that special ring you find yourself needing dust and not wanting to traipse across the continents . . crunch . . and go mine again if you need that enchanted gem. If you did it once, you could do it again.

But then, that is just my opinion . .

~ Jil

LoganGrimnar · « **Reply #5 on:** August 16, 2006, 12:17:59 am »

proablem with a cruncher, Jil, is that mages that wish to cast stoneskin will now simple be able to use this, and not have to learn to grind them. so there is a small proablem there.

@Step, cutting the Gem gets you EXP, for nothing, all you need is a gem and the chisle and you can get exp. Now if you could add another thing so you could grind the gems, that means you will get more exp, for little work. Where as with polishing, it costs you something to take that extra step. I use to think the same way, oh it would be nice if i could grind cut gems so i dident have to spend coin on the oils, then i thought maybe thats WHY they dont let you smash cut gems, becouse its about balance. As i see it its perfiect as it is.

On and Sonya, your not the only one who has ended up with ALOT of gems you no longer get exp from, just toss them out. i had something like 200 Malachite at one time when i was paying folks to bring the gems to me, then i ended up with a mountain and they became trivel, so into the trash they went. Though you could set them into rings, its kinda a waist of the metals and time in my opinion.

Hellblazer · « **Reply #6 on:** August 16, 2006, 01:13:21 am »

Actualy at the moment I am the one who has to provide about 434 bottle of Polishing oil to Sonya lol. Having the dust from ct gems would help a lot in the process of making the postion as I haev someone brining me a box of mush almost every 2 days.

Dorganath · « **Reply #7 on:** August 16, 2006, 05:56:58 am »

Donate the gems to the deity of your choice?
Sell them to the pawns?
Sell them to enchanters/infusers?
*shrugs*

LoganGrimnar · « **Reply #8 on:** August 16, 2006, 06:48:41 am »

Quote

Hellblazer - 8/16/2006 1:13 AM

Actualy at the moment I am the one who has to provide about 434 bottle of Polishing oil to Sonya lol. Having the dust from ct gems would help a lot in the process of making the postion as I haev someone brining me a box of mush almost every 2 days.

the point was that its more free exp and would make lvling in the craft alot faster. I thought it out along time ago when i took up the craft and how nice it would be and how much more exp i would get, but thats just it, its for a balance thing, i think. If you want the dust, grind them up in the first place.

Jilseponie Wyndon · « **Reply #9 on:** August 16, 2006, 07:00:44 am »

My apologies Logangrimnar, The unit I had seen did not give xp for grinding the gems ito dust. I should have mentioned that.

~ Jil

Stephen_Zuckerman · « **Reply #10 on:** August 16, 2006, 08:37:13 am »

One dust out of a topaz for zero XP? That's a waste if you're ANYTHING of a gemcrafter. But if you're not, it's a handy tool. Also, if you've got a bunch of cut greenstone or malachite that you don't have the oil to polish (or the metal to set it in), that little bit of dust can be nice. As for cost, jeez. Does it cost ANYTHING to cook, woodcraft, smith, etc.? Sure, I guess you could by gum arabic from the magic vendor, but sheesh. It's far, far easier to get gum arabic in quantity than white mushrooms. Or you could buy your sugar, salt, molds... Yes, you have to buy a 4gp yeast every now and again, for cooks. But set that against a 15-25gp polishing oil. Now let's consider balance for a moment. Let's assume you're trying to get dust out of a Fire Opal. So, you have two choices. Set the opal on the grinding stone, or the cutting stone. If you use the grinding stone, you get either two or three dusts; I don't recall. If you use the cutting stone, and succeed at cutting it, you get a cut opal and an opal dust. If you fail, you get an opal dust. Let's assume you succeed. You can take it to the polishing bench, and try polishing it; that'll give you a flawed stone if you fail. Crush that on the grinding stone, and you get another dust, for a total of two. Let's assume that at any point along the way, you toss the stone into the Pounder. You get one dust out of it. If you cut it successfully, you've already got one dust. So another one? Nifty! But... That's only one more. For a total of two. End product:

Faldred · « **Reply #11 on:** August 16, 2006, 08:52:17 am »

Quote

Stephen_Zuckerman - 8/16/2006 11:37 AM

You can take it to the polishing bench, and try polishing it; that'll give you a flawed stone if you fail. Crush that on the grinding stone, and you get another dust, for a total of two.

I don't know if the yield is different for different types of stones, but from my experience, gem smashing/grinding always provides at least 1 dust, plus 2 extra on success. That's a total of two on failure, four on success, plus the extra XP.

Dorganath · « **Reply #12 on:** August 16, 2006, 08:58:54 am »

Yields of dusts on grinding success vary by gemstones.
Greenstones return 3 dusts, I think, Higher level stones yield 2 or even 1. This is for successes.
For ALL grinding attempts, success or fail, you also receive 1 dust as a by-product.
So fail, and get 1 dust. Succeed and get 2-4, depending on the mineral.

Stephen_Zuckerman · « **Reply #13 on:** August 16, 2006, 09:10:54 am »

So, the general consensus is that grinding a stone at ANY point with the Pounder would yield less dust, AND no XP, as compared to actually grinding it on the grinding bench.

However, it would open up the option of getting one more dust for no XP at ANY stage of the gemcrafting.

My vote's for it. Anyone else?

LoganGrimnar · « **Reply #14 on:** August 16, 2006, 01:29:54 pm »

the reasion i say the grinder is bad is becouse you dont have to work at all to use it. Even if you get no exp its still to much. Mith took up gem craft for the soul purpose of Topaz Dust, now if i could just toss my rocks in a grinder i wouldent have had to work to get the items needed to cast what is a quite powerful spell. Sure you have to work to get the stones themselves from the ogers, but you shouledent be able to just pop it into a mechine and have it ground up. Next we will be seeing a wood chipper IG, so now i can go get the Mahogany that i cant turn into saw dust becouse i dont do wood work, and i can drop it into the chipper and ta da, i get saw dust for scrolls and i did no work at all.

And in the defence of Cooking, look at the income of a cook, then look at one of a gem crafter. A cook has less expensices but makes nothing from his work. A gem crafter pays alot for oils and can eventually make alot of money, and the next step is Enchanting, costs a fortune, but you will make your money back 100x over easily in the end. Smithing is not cheep of easy, pick axes are 70 something coins, hammers are what.. 30 something, the greater hammer(advanced crafting?) is 2k or something. Then you have to carry ore that is 10.5 lbs each, and Smelt it, then you need paterns which i have no idea of the cost. So, as a gem crafter its 15 coin or somthing per oil, or as a Smith, its 70 for the pick(balsawood picks) and the hammer is 30 something, both tend to break alot..

crafts seam to cost more bassed on possable income, tailoring you need to skin and thread and patterns and kits and all that, wood work you get axes.. and lots and lots of splinters.

If we are actually voting, i would say No.

Stephen_Zuckerman · « **Reply #15 on:** August 16, 2006, 01:55:03 pm »

Not having to work to get a dust from a topaz? Logan, what you don't seem to realize is that putting a gem in the grinder would essentially be like putting it on a bench and failing your roll. The only thing NEW it would do would be allow people to grind cut, fine, and enchanted gems, as well, and all for no XP.

You put a Topaz in the grinder. You get 1 Topaz dust. You put a Topaz on the grinding bench, and succeed. I think that's 3 Topaz dusts, and some XP. Or maybe you fail. That's 1 Topaz dust, and no XP.

Putting it on the grinder is like auto-failing a grinding attempt, only you can do it with any stage of gem.

merlin34baseball · « **Reply #16 on:** August 16, 2006, 05:15:30 pm »

I think you should be able to make dust at any stage of a gem, rough, cut or polished. My wife is a jeweler in RL and she's turned a few gems into dust accidently LOL (thank the gods she'll never read this). I just think you should be able to put a cut or polished stone on the smashing table and at least get one dust back for it. The yeild could even be less the better quality gem, maybe you would only get one dust from a polished gem since you have taken so much weight away while cutting and polishing it. I to carry around alot of fairly useless gems, why would I bother anymore to set greenstones and such when it is trivial to make unless someone specifically asked for the ring or amulet?

LoganGrimnar · « **Reply #17 on:** August 16, 2006, 07:36:18 pm »

but you cant just up and smash a gem, if you have no skill in the scraft you cant even attempte to smash the topaz. So my meaning is, if there is a Grinder added, they will have no need to learn the skills of Gem Craft like everyone else who wanted to cast stoneskin.

And you wouldent bother setting Greenstones, the dust isent used for anything anyways, that i can recall.. the metal, be it copper or anything, isent worth waisting to set a greenstone inless someone is buying it.

Well though it might make sence to be able to grind it up, im talking about BALANCE, not of the things that make sence.. sure it makes sence, but if your going to add that, then there should be a wood chipper too, RL i can turn a hunk of wood to dust, just like a Gem. Not hard. But if that was added IG then i would start scribing, i dont scribe now becouse i dont do wood work. If we got a grinder, then heck, i dont need to work anymore to get saw dust, i can just grind it up and make some scrolls. And i dont think that is balanced, it makes sence, sure, but i dont know that it would be good for the world. The hole, not having topaz dust thing is a big phase to being a caster, well it was for me anyways, people blast threw lvls like paper now, took me quight awhile before i could go without needed Topaz Dust. And with this, it will be easy to get.

Guess im stubern or just not seeing the light here, it makes sence, but i dont think it would be right, inless it was added to other crafts as well. Id still vote No inless it was put for everything, and even then, i dont like the idea of being able to get the saw dust without having to actually work for it. Really its up to the GM's, so id like to hear what some of them think.

Stephen_Zuckerman · « **Reply #18 on:** August 16, 2006, 07:41:10 pm »

It actually doesn't hurt balance at all to have the grinder; in theory, it would just pound at the stone and let the finest dust (the gem dust) filter through little holes in the bottom.

As to balance? It doesn't take ANY of the challenge out of gemcrafting. It AUTOMATICALLY FAILS YOUR ROLL.

The only change would be allowing for any stage of gem to be smashed.

LoganGrimnar · « **Reply #19 on:** August 16, 2006, 07:52:39 pm »

if you have 0 skill, exp, lvls whatever in gem craft, you can not make topaz dust. So you have to learn a little before you can begin to grind them. You cant just sit down and fail them all at 0% chance becouse when you have 0% it wont let you try. With the grinder you will never have to try to learn any crafting at all, i might not have learned gem craft at all if we had this, why would i need to? Now i understand this isent All about Topaz dust, but that is the first thing i would see being abused. You could just go grab a meneral and toss it in, getting a Dust, without ever having to cut Greenstones or Malachite and whatever else intell you can actually have the skill to grind topaz.

Now a way this could work so as to not do what im talking about. Make it like the ingot recycler, sometimes you get useable gem dust, sometimes you dont. That i think would be best. Now id also think you cant throw Menerals intot he grinder, RP reasion, the meneral has dirt and rocks on it, so it would mix in with your dust, or brake the grinder. So you could make it so you could ONLY gring up already processed gems. So, Cut the gem, then you can grind it. This will fix the issue with people not having to learn gem craft, and it will keep things balanced.

My sugestions to make it work added, id say sure, add this, add it to wood too to be fair. But with what i have here you at least have to have some skill to get the gems, or some way to get the processed gems via friend or whatever.