Crafting/CNR gathering with restricted items

[Faldred]

As always, the standard disclaimers for my crazy ideas apply.    If the system works the way it currently does for balance reasons, please ignore the following completely:  Several classes, due to weapons proficiency, are unable to collect certain types of CNR or to engage in certain crafting deats due to the weapons proficiency requirement on the tool involved.  Without changing how these tools are defined, I think there's a relatively simple way to allow these classes to use the restricted items.

Laborer's Gloves Bonus Feat: Weapon Proficiency Simple Bonus Feat: Weapon Proficiency Martial Attack Penalty: -8
[/list]This would allow the character to equip the items in question while making them pretty much useless for wielding combat weapons.  I thought about making a damage penalty instead of or in addition to the to-hit penalty, but that would make them useless for mining ore or chopping wood.

[Dorganath]

The classes that cannot wield harvesting tools can burn a feat, if they really want to go that route, or hire someone to harvest for them. Druids should never take such feats, nor take advantage of such items, as their class weapons are a matter of oaths and dogma, not ability.

[Faldred]

As I stated up front, if the system works from a balance standpoint, then just ignore the suggestion.  

To the specific critiques:

With regards to burning a feat, I thought that from previous discussions, it was undesireable to put players in the position to have to use feats for crafting purposes.

I also agree absolutely that certain characters (whether by class, diety, order, or other background) should not use something like this from an RP perspective.

[crazedgoblin]

*shivers* -8 AB now thats nasty

[Faldred]

crazedgoblin - 8/25/2006  10:58 AM

*shivers* -8 AB now thats nasty

That's the idea... these aren't supposed to be used for combat.

[Talan Va'lash]

An attack bonus (positive or negative) on gloves only matters for unarmed attacks. If you equip a weapon it is ignored.

[Faldred]

Talan Va'lash - 8/25/2006  2:36 PM

An attack bonus (positive or negative) on gloves only matters for unarmed attacks. If you equip a weapon it is ignored.

Ah.  That would be a flaw, wouldn't it.  

[crazedgoblin]

i know its meant to be there but still its *shiver*

[Hellblazer]

Sorry for my ignorance but can you explain what burning a feat is?

[Fatherchaos]

Spending your "feat" points on level up to get a feat that is otherwise useless. E.g. the mage getting the martial weapons proficiency to use crafting items when most likely they would have no need to weilding that 2h sword as well.

[Hellblazer]

ah ok thanks

[lunchboxkilla]

I'm pro the "burning the feat" to craft

I see with these gloves they can be overly abused in ways no one would think of.. These should be gained through GMs to druids ONLY. Maybe even flaggd as a quest item so you cant drop it, trade it, give it away.

If a mage wants to mine he's gonna need to learn how to hold a pick axe.

The AB can be nulled out with a weapon.. So I was thinking of a high stat hit that would nearly cripple a said druid While crafting... HP loss. Slowed, somethign that would make you not want to use it in combat other than a -8 AB

I'm thinking a huge loss in Dex or something else, maybe -50 HP (though thses maybe gloves of Suicide for low levels) or better yet loss of spell slots.

[Gulnyr]

Why would a Druid need gloves like this?  I'm kinda lost.

[Dorganath]

Yeah um....druids are exactly the reason why this is a bad idea. Druids have no business using a hatchet or a pick. Calling it a "tool" rather than a weapon is skirting around the issue of druidic oaths and dogma.

[Stephen_Zuckerman]

What about rogues, wizards, sorcerers, monks, and all the others who can't mine, or, in some cases, even chip gems?

You could even limit it to those classes, and you may as well throw in Bard. That'd cover the UMD hole.

As for penalties... Let's say the death penalties: -4 to all stats. That would really discourage using them for anything but mining.

Or, y'know, we could drop the weapon nonproficiency haks that came up in discussion a while back into the module, but the compatability issues I imagine would be a nightmare. Bugs galore and such.

This way's easier.

Item Attributes:
Only Usable By: Rogue
Only Usable By: Wizard
Only Usable By: Sorcerer
Only Usable By: Monk
Only Usable By: Bard
Ability Penalty: -4 STR
Ability Penalty: -4 DEX
Ability Penalty: -4 CON
Ability Penalty: -4 INT
Ability Penalty: -4 WIS
Ability Penalty: -4 CHA

How's that strike you?

[Frelinder]

LoL.. would be fun to watch a wizard try to mine with any of the gloves stated above.. -8 AB "shivers" or the -4 str. Even with haste, and GMW on the pick it would be realy hard work for the wizard. As I see it it wouldn't be worth the trouble. Same thing with rogues. they can't buff themselves to become better in mining and with penalties on their AB and/or str. they would do a poor job. Pay a half giant to do the job instead

[Dorganath]

Like Frelinder said...the AB hit and/or stat penaldy would make use by the intended classes almost pointless.
  Mining and chopping take attack rolls. Damage is important, because it not only determines when you actually get a piece of CNR but also because trees and rocks have DR. A low STR wizard would have to pray for a critical hit just to damage the thing most likely, as he'd take at least a -2 damage penalty right off the top (assuming a -4 STR penalty and 10 base strength) and then have to overcome 5/- DR. That's a need to effectively roll 8 points of damage just to do 1 point of damage to the rock/tree....and that's IF he can hit the darn thing with a low Wizard AB and the stat penalty and/or the AB penalty.
  It's just not practical.
  I'm seriously unsure why it's so difficult though for such classes to buy that kind of CNR off of others, or work out some kind of trade agreement, to get the things they can't normally get. I know lots of crafters who have done this, and dare I say, I believe this system was designed with that in mind.

[Gulnyr]

Stephen_Zuckerman - 8/27/2006  10:31 PM

all the others who can't mine, or, in some cases, even chip gems?

Is this an exaggeration or a mistake?  Gems can be chipped with the gem chisel, which is based on the dagger, which is a weapon every character class can use.

[Stephen_Zuckerman]

Gulnyr - 8/31/2006  12:58 PM

Is this an exaggeration or a mistake?  Gems can be chipped with the gem chisel, which is based on the dagger, which is a weapon every character class can use.

I thought monks couldn't use daggers... Then again, I've never played one, so go figure.

My mistake.

[Gulnyr]

Understandable.  No problem.