cnr gathering

[stolen]

Aren't shovels and stuff supposed to last a little longer since the update?

[Dorganath]

Could you give more details? Like how many shovels broke in how many attempts?

[stolen]

I broke 4 shovels in the spirit dunes before I got past the first area. 3 deposits I think, Maybe 4.

[stolen]

Still gathering and now I broke a shovel before I got even one bag of sand. I think it said in the update that wasnt supposed to happen?

[stolen]

here is the log in case you want it


[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Thu Apr 09 19:15:38] [Server] You are now in a Full PVP Area.
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Thu Apr 09 19:15:54] You have broken your shovel.
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Thu Apr 09 19:15:54] Lost Item: Shovel
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Thu Apr 09 19:15:59] Sheez.. How deep must I go??
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Thu Apr 09 19:16:00] Unsummoning Summoned Legendary Bear.
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Thu Apr 09 19:16:02] You dug up a Bag of Sand
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Thu Apr 09 19:16:06] Acquired Item: Bag of Sand
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Thu Apr 09 19:17:11] Lareth_Vathach has left as a player..
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Thu Apr 09 19:17:14] Elgon In'Darsus uses Remembering Orb
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Thu Apr 09 19:17:14] You close your eyes briefly and impress your soul upon the land.

[Dorganath]

OK...

First, if you think something is amiss, you should post it under Bug Reports, not here. And when making a bug report, include as much relevant information as possible. One line without details simply isn't enough.

I am moving the post there after I post this for proper accounting.

It was never stated shovels would not break.  This is the exact statement in the update notes:

The breakage rate for crafting and harvesting tools is now much closer to their designed specifications, making them effectively more durable than they have been but about as durable as they should have been

In other words, it states the tool breakage should be better overall (meaning over all shovels used over a long period of time)...not that hey should last forever.

The check to find out whether or not a tool breaks happen every time it's used, not every time something is returned.  So for example, if there's 15 attempts to dig at a deposit before a single piece of CNR is returned, then there will be 15 checks against that tool, not one.

You were a bit unlear in the later posts, but what I think you're saying is that the deposit should have yielded at least one bag of sand before the shovel broke, based on this (from the update notes):

When a harvesting tool breaks from use, the tree or deposit will yield at least one bit of CNR before the tool breaks

Admittedly, the statement is slightly ambiguous, and I apologize for it.  Sand and clay deposits weren't changed to do this, but perhaps for consistency they should be. I will try and get that in before the next update is posted, but I can't make that a guarantee.

Getting back to the tool breakage thing in general, the random number generation scheme used for sand and clay digging and in fact the chance that shovels will break is exactly the same as for axes and picks.  Remember that the whole server is competing for random numbers. Like with everything in CNR, combat, etc., sometimes you get lucky, and sometimes you don't.

[stolen]

Sorry for the incorrect placement of the post but originally it wasn't a bug report, just a question if things were supposed to last longer since the update.

The original question was if they should "last a little longer". I never assumed that things would "last forever". I had 4 shovels break on 3 deposits and then one break without any sand. I was just curious.

[stolen]

The check to find out whether or not a tool breaks happen every time it's used, not every time something is returned.  So for example, if there's 15 attempts to dig at a deposit before a single piece of CNR is returned, then there will be 15 checks against that tool, not one.

And another thing just out of curiosity. Does this mean that there is a check on the item every time you click on the deposit, or every time your pc says "arrgh, digging is hard" (or whatever the statements are), which I guess would be once per round?

[Dorganath]

And another thing just out of curiosity. Does this mean that there is a check on the item every time you click on the deposit, or every time your pc says "arrgh, digging is hard" (or whatever the statements are), which I guess would be once per round?

For Cutting wood and mining ore, this check happens once each "hit", meaning each time the mining tool makes contact with the CNR.

For gem mining, sand and clay digging this happens each time your character gives that feedback ("I hope my shovel/chisel doesn't break," etc.). By "use" I mean the IC appearance of use, so yes, each round, each loop of the animation, etc.

[Ravemore]

Dorg, not sure if this has any bearing, but I went through 5 gem crafter's tools in 30 attempts. I do a lot of gem crafting and this is very unusual...

[stolen]

Don't want to keep harping on this, but doesn't this see a little extreme on shovel breakage.


[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Sat Apr 11 08:58:36] Unsummoning Summoned Legendary Bear.
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Sat Apr 11 08:58:53] You have broken your shovel.
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Sat Apr 11 08:58:53] You dug up a Bag of Sand
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Sat Apr 11 08:58:53] Lost Item: Shovel
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Sat Apr 11 08:58:58] You have broken your shovel.
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Sat Apr 11 08:58:58] You dug up a Bag of Sand
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Sat Apr 11 08:58:58] Lost Item: Shovel
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Sat Apr 11 08:58:59] Acquired Item: Bag of Sand
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Sat Apr 11 08:59:04] Acquired Item: Bag of Sand
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Sat Apr 11 08:59:05] You have broken your shovel.
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Sat Apr 11 08:59:05] You dug up a Bag of Sand
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Sat Apr 11 08:59:05] Lost Item: Shovel
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Sat Apr 11 08:59:09] I hope my shovel doesn't break.
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Sat Apr 11 08:59:11] Acquired Item: Bag of Sand
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Sat Apr 11 08:59:13] This better be worth it!.
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Sat Apr 11 08:59:14] You dug up a Bag of Sand
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Sat Apr 11 08:59:14] That's the end of that!
[CHAT WINDOW TEXT] [Sat Apr 11 08:59:23] Acquired Item: Bag of Sand

Breakage seems to be much worse than before.

[Dorganath]

Ugh...yeah sorry. I missed an important line in the fix.  *sighs at self*

We'll have that corrected soon.

[Hellblazer]

Don't worry Dorg we still love ( disclaimer: the term of love is being used in an appreciative and platonic sense of the word) you even if you make some mistakes. Just tired. I bet that's it.

[orth]

Alright, we think we're seeing a newly introduced bug with the last tweak we made.  The same deposit will keep breaking each tool you try.  If you break a shovel on a deposit, that deposit will then keep breaking any shovel.

We'll try to get a fix out ASAP, but this still doesn't address your initial concern since this bug was just introduced in last night's update.

Edit: //Alright I probably should have refreshed the thread first

[stolen]

Everything else in the update is awesome

[Dorganath]

While I didn't change a thing in terms of how the random rolls are generated, the last update gives one the ability to turn on a display of the rolls and the number to roll above. Type /o c toggle tool_feedback to display these rolls in the combat window.  If you have full logging turned on, this information will also show up in your logs.

As well, the nasty problem of a deposit constantly breaking shovels has been fixed.

[Hellblazer]

You know one has to wonder how with a 0.9 check against, a tool would break. But it happens ... *scratches his head* Thanks for that option dorg.

[Dorganath]

Well I have the same answer there as I have for crafting, Soul Mother checks and so forth.

It's not just you pulling random numbers out of the generator, it's everyone on the server. Your rolls are all mixed in with everyone else's, and the distribution of results is spread far beyond just your own character.

Anyway, yeah, it shows the system is doing what it's supposed to do.