duelist precise strike

[akata]

Description: the duelist special ability precise strike overwrites weapons standard enchantment to damage (+1 from iron +2 from adamantium and so on) and it overwrites the damage effect from greater magic weapon as well.

I attached a screen shot showing my charcter with a adamantium short sword, I get my precise strike but not the standard +2 any adamantium weapon provides
the other screen shot shows my charcter with a light pick simple to prove that its only wrong with the weapons the duelist precise strike work with

Location: -

Verified: -

Reproducable: yes

[jrizz]

The description does say that it is EXTRA damage. So that would lead me to think it should be in addition to what the weapon already does.

[s0ulz]

For some reason I can't explain right now, I think this is how NWN handles extra bonuses. They aren't meant to stack due to mechanics. No proof though, just a shadowy recollection of some thread I might have read once.

[akata]

The description does say that it is EXTRA damage. So that would lead me to think it should be in addition to what the weapon already does.

yup we agree but as you can see it dont do that, angela with a standard adamantium weapon gets her duelist bonus (2d6) but it overwrites the standard +2 piercing, so my weapon reads +2d6 not +2d6 +2 piercing

I know its not much but it does the same with greater magic weapon, were it can be +5 piercing

[jrizz]

For some reason I can't explain right now, I think this is how NWN handles extra bonuses. They aren't meant to stack due to mechanics. No proof though, just a shadowy recollection of some thread I might have read once.

Yeah I recall this as well but I would need to search to find it.

Does it over write the enchantment bonus (fire, cold...)?

Ok I can see why it would over write the piercing damage. But it should not over write the to hit bonus.

[s0ulz]

Yeah I recall this as well but I would need to search to find it.

Does it over write the enchantment bonus (fire, cold...)?

Ok I can see why it would over write the piercing damage. But it should not over write the to hit bonus.

I'm pretty sure it has something to do with the fact of similar sourced additional damage (piercing and piercing in this case) not stacking. Like you cant have two acid bonuses and two massive crit bonuses.

Mechanics..

[jrizz]

yup it is all about stacking

[s0ulz]

and about it overwriting the to-hit bonus... it's piercing too, from the weapon type. So the 2d6 piercing overwrites it.

/me blames the engine.

[jrizz]

I looked at both shots again and it does not look like it is over writing the "to hit" just the damage as it should be.

[akata]

heh I know it dont overwrite the to hit, otherwise I would have posted it but its still a bug I'm missing my weapon damage and with a +5 from a gmw precise strike is more or less useless

[jrizz]

it replaces the piercing damage with better damage (2-12 is better then 2 or even 5). That is what the description means by "extra", I would say.

[Frelinder]

However untill the duelist gets 2d6 piercing extra damage at lvl 6 duelist, and just have the 1d6 extra damage thats actually way worce then the +5 from GMW.. *shrugs*

[jrizz]

but it is still better then +2.

[Filatus]

I don't know.. the char sheet doesn't always give the correct info. Easy to test though on a combat dummy. Just beat it for a few minutes and see if you ever roll more damage than possible according to the char sheet.

[Weeblie]

This particular engine limitation is most unlikely something that's "working as designed", but rather "it's this way because engine being unable to handle the correct way".

The only possible (easy) fix I could see to this would be to change the damage to something else instead. Say, slashing. That's making less RP sense, of course, but it would be free from this problem, as Precise Strike only works on piercing weapons (read: there wouldn't be able to be any problems).

[Stephen_Zuckerman]

Agreed, however that would make for a few interesting quirks with DR.

Seconded for the suggestion of making the bonus Slashing.

[Skywatcher]

I noticed that the effect from Flame weapon doesn't show up in the character sheet window even when it shows on the weapon but it does show up in the damage when you hit something.  Could it be that the damage is there but it just isn't showing in the character sheet damage list?

[Stephen_Zuckerman]

No. The damage for Flame Weapon and similar spells is an On-Hit property (in the case of Flame Weapon, On-Hit Fire level x). It'll show up if you Examine the weapon itself, but not in the character sheet.

Precise Strike shows up as a Damage Bonus on the weapon, and overwrites the bonus to damage from an enhancement bonus.

Enhancement bonus adds to-hit and damage, of the type the weapon is. An addy dagger, for example, does added piercing damage.

Precise Strike adds piercing damage. As we know, two bonuses of the same damage do not stack - the one taking effect last is the one that sticks.

Precise Strike does not stack with bonus damage from Enhancement bonuses. It does stack with Racial-type bonuses (silver and titanium enhancements), and Elemental-type bonuses (fire, acid, etc.), as well as Vampiric Regeneration (I believe), and any other On-Hit effects (such as the effect from Flame Weapon).

As Precise Strike turns on only for light, piercing weapons, the change of damage type from piercing to slashing would circumvent the bug of Precise Strike overwriting the damage bonus from enhancement... Which can be particularly crippling when you've got some epic caster giving you GMW +35. *Chuckles.*

[akata]

log and screen shot of the weapon.
adamantium short sword damage 1d6+2d6+3 (+3 being my str modifier)
damage range 6-21
the log shows 5 min of beating up the combat dummy and the only time I damage over 21 is when I crit

I am aware of that the reason it overwrites and dont stack is the nwn engine, but I dont belive it was meant to work that way,
if you look at Precise Strike and Sneak Attack, both adding extra damage.

Precise Strike
Type of Feat: Class
Prerequisite: Duelist 2

Specifics: The character gains extra piercing damage when wielding a light piercing weapon. +1d6 at 2nd level, +2d6 at 6th level.

Use: Automatic when wielding a light melee piercing weapon. This only functions when the offhand is free and with melee weapons. It does not function with Layonara Custom Weapons.

to compare:
Sneak Attack
Type of Feat: Class
Prerequisite: Rogue 1

Specifics: Whenever a character makes a successful attack against an opponent who is Flat-footed, cannot see them, or who is in combat with someone else, the characters blow delivers extra damage. This extra damage is +1d6 at 1st level and an additional +1d6 every two levels thereafter. This extra damage is not multiplied in the case of a Critical Hit.

Use: Automatic.

as weeblie pointed out this can easily be fixed by making the damage slashing, all piercing weapons have a edge as well and saying a duelist gain knowledge in using them to cut with at lvl 2 and 6 dont seem to far out for me

Edited:
recalled that all Rods add slashing damage not matter what weapon you put them on, a Flail with a silver enchantment add's slashing damage
attached a screen shot of my own rapier it has a Titanium rod IV on
+1d8 slashing on elementals and outsides, even if the base weapon is piercing

[Dorganath]

Alright, let me put this on hold a bit right here and explain something.

This class was designed by people a while ago who have a pretty good handle on balance.  And yes, this "bug" may be in fact a balancing issue, and not an unintentional effect.

At the risk of sounding harsh, it's the GM team that's responsible for determining how something should be.  So, in the chance that this was in fact some kind of oversight (rare, but it happens) in balancing, then I'll try and do some research.  

However, I make absolutely no guarantees that it will be changed.  Though you may not agree with the result, it may indeed be working as designed/intended.