True seeing lore description bug - CLOSED

[Hellblazer]

In the lore description you have the counter spell set as greater shadow conjuration. Upon looking at that counter, there is nothing in there that would actually counter True seeing.

[ycleption]

Are you confusing the spells used for counterspelling mode with a spell that can be used to counter the effects of a given spell?

Or are you objecting to the concept behind it?

[Dorganath]

True seeing - Neverwinter Nights Wiki - NWNWiki

The "counters" are not for dispelling True Seeing but for countering it while it is being cast through the Counterspelling mode.  Effectively, it's a mid-level Illusion spell going up against a mid-level Divination spell.

[Hellblazer]

I am trying to see the logic behind using that specific spell to counter True seeing. As there is nothing that would stop true seeing from being casted or from working in the shadow conjuration spell in it self. It would have a greater logical congruity if lesser dispel was used, as in this case that spell would be able to actually remove True sight, there for would also prevent it from being casted, on a logic sense of things.

[Dorganath]

It sounds like you're confusing dispelling with countering.

To dispel True Seeing, you would need a Dispel Magic or Mordenkainen's Disjunction.

To counterspell any spell, you could use the spell itself, any of the Dispel versions or Mordenkainen's Disjunction.  Some spells have additional counters.  In the case of some spells, like True Seeing, there are additional spells that can be used to counterspell the casting, in this case, it's Greater Shadow Conjuration.

I think perhaps the logic step you're missing is that you're looking at the "spells" available within Greater Shadow Conjuration and trying to apply those to True Seeing.

That won't work.

As I explained before, the logic behind it is we have a mid-level Divination spell (True Seeing) going up against a mid-level Illusion spell (GSC).  Divination and Illusion are "opposed" in that one typically undoes the other.  In that context, it makes perfect sense.

EDIT:  The idea behind counterspelling is not that the spell is "removed" but rather "blocked" or interfered with so that it does not ever take effect.

[Hellblazer]

well No I wasn't confusing dispelling and countering, but how you explain it with the schooling does make sense.

I was going on this type of logic. If you drink a lot of lemonade and have a stomach ache due to acid, taking calcium would stop it (dispelling), there for taking calcium before drinking the lemonade would stop the acid from bothering you before hand (countering). While if you have a stomach ache due to sugar, no amount of calcium would solve that.

[darkstorme]

It doesn't work the same way, Hellblazer.  The effects of the spells are immaterial - counterspelling prevents the Al'noth from taking the patterns of a spell in the first place, by either undoing them in the same way that they are being made (using the same spell), erasing them as they're being made (catch-all dispel spells), or by providing something equal but opposite (extra countering spells).

GSC is a versatile illusion spell, capable of creating effects so realistic that despite their not actually being real, they can still inflict damage upon their target (Melf's Acid Arrow) by fooling the senses into thinking damage has been inflicted.  True Seeing is a spell meant to see through illusions.  Ergo, it makes sense that the former could be used to undo the patterns in the Al'Noth created by the latter.

Once a spell is completed (fully cast), it cannot be as easily undone, which is why it has to be dispelled, and fewer tools exist to do so.  It's like stitching.  If you've a half-done project, someone could readily come by and unpick the stitching.  If it's complete, tied off and sealed, even, it becomes somewhat more difficult to undo, and may require specific tools.