A few thoughts...

[LynnJuniper]

I was actually going to post this as a follow up post somewhere, but I've seemed to have misplaced the original post, or the poster never posted.

I've gone through four edits of this to make it as not-negative as possible with still saying what I want to say.....I know it can possibly get people to think Im an even worse person than they do now

But I'm going to post this anyway....


I'm going to give a few of my thoughts as a caster.

Frankly, perhaps its something some discussion on tactics can help me with:

I feel useless as a party member in a strictly non RP sense and have for a while.


 First of all, some people have different ideas of balance than others. Some believe that balance is having the casters able to do some things , the fighters another, the healers another etc. Others thing its more "Well Casters dominated the show so long, lets completley flip the tables." The second one isn't balance. I suppose, in some weird way there's a type of balance to it, but its not balance within server spirit (I think, my judge of server spirit has been entirely skewed lately).

As a caster I've noticed the following things. I will not even  take the time out to say it was only for this update, because it wasn't. One major problem. No, the problem isn't that quest NPCs can do things that normal PCs couldn't ever try despite never ever having their names uttered in common place. No its not the fact that everyone from the smallest pesant to grandest king has true sight. Its not even the Mind, True Sight, and Death Immunities on every monster, though that does play into the fact.

Its their saves...

Evocation has never. never worked unless you've taken an epic focus in it and then you get lucky once and a while.

Everything has such a high reflex save that evocation is no longer useful. Unless you're casting Issacs Missle storm...and what fun is spamming one spell over and over?

Well it was like this before...so thats what people did: Hand, Issac, Weird, Wail, hand Issac Weird Wail

It was kind of boring, but it worked. and it worked in the party's favor...

And then , the added, but completley understood Mind, and Death immunities and True Sight were added to the mix..

Which, would've been fine. TOTALLY understandable. Casting the same three spells over and over is kind of cheap....but mix that with the fact that evocation still doesn't work...

and it turns into a bit of a problem. Casters effectively come buff monkies who sit down during the middle of fights or maybe throw a mass haste , displace, or hey, issac's missle here and there.

Or maybe I'm just completley bad at combat as others in Layonara have told me and Im missing something I as an individual could be doing better.

Maybe, and to tell you the truth, most probably the problem is with bioware: There just arent enough spells in general to make it interesting

Any suggestions?

I have to honestly admit that I don't know what I'm asking for here. I realize I complain a lot. I realise Im saying on the one hand, being able to cast the same five spells is boring, and on the other not being able to cast any is worse. I  know some would beleive that if I have no solutions I should just crawl off my soap box and shut up. Sadly I am cursed or blessed with the ability to make people know how I feel. One day , as everyone says,its going to get me in serious trouble. Maybe that day is today maybe its already come.

I've recently sent a post to L telling him why I was still here: So Ill tell you bits and peices of it.

This stuff Ive mentioned doesn't want to make me stop playing, because its not what I play for in the first place, but its a big part of playing.

So long as quests are thoughtful and creative (and so long as they fit my character if Im going to be there), and so long as I have friends both IC and OOC to rp with, You're stuck with me unless you see it fit to make it otherwise I like you guys.

That is all.

[Ozy_Llewellyn]

Well for some reason I liked that post. I've been asking people quietly and skulking for some time questions about the newest update. They tend to agree, although they have seemed to do so in the same quiet out of the way manner. Neverwinter Nights Layonara to my understanding is basically done in terms of development. Maybe a couple of small updates for important bug fixes, or the odd DM request will happen.

All the same, I have read her post and find a bit of reason to do other then quietly wait. Having seen favorable winds fall to most any given class over time. I've a much longer term approach when it comes to the term balance than many. Remember when if you were not an enchanter you had no chance, how about when clerics were all powerful, what about when... I could go on for some time. Constructive criticism is always key in life, and never easy to perform. So I suppose my agreeing with her is the criticism part of it, so now to be constructive would be the other half, yes? I suppose I could agree with her constructive outright, but I like that part to be my own at the least.

Constructive but manageable, constructive but manageable. That would be a trick really wouldn't it? It has to be something implemented easily, quickly and with little effort. Otherwise with this state of 'final update already passed' it just isn't realistically going to happen. Spells, no that is to much overhead. More areas, thats just pushing for a problem with maximum load servers. The spawns, well spawns are not to hard to change around. With such a varied selection of creatures some of the 'range' the new areas present should be represented ideally for my idea.

Monsters when in monotone are easy to set up, you can predict which way the battle goes with strengths or weaknesses when presented. Unfortunately it also makes the battles fairly monotonous, not just for casters but everyone involved. All I can suggest is having two or three types of monsters in a single spawn. Has this been done before? Yes, did it always work, no. I've observed the key to it was a variance between those monsters with saves and immunitys. A strong willed one with high will but low reflex and/or fortitude, with his nice friend the gentlemen with a gut of iron but was either weak willed or slow of movement. The next key to the situation would be those immunitys, weak willed but immune to mind spells defeats the point self evidently. Now of course boss monsters are different, they lead a hord of problem makers. Exception not the rule falls into play there.

So is the editing of a few areas, to add in some variable spawns to unreasonable to ask? I don't think it really is. The new dead/wild magic areas wouldn't need to be touched, but the live magic ones perhaps could be adjusted a bit. So long really as a spawn cannot be wiped out by a single attack from any given class but at the same time it can be damaged as a whole, more people are happy.

Anyway I really don't have anything else to say on this subject. Quick two line review.
Problem: Monsters suffering from all or nothing when involving casters.
Solution: Varied spawns, allowing some volatile magic to work its wonders but not wiping out an entire spawn at once.

Hind sight, how I wish it was more forward thinking. Been handy to know what I have observed up till now about six months ago.

[LynnJuniper]

Varying the spawns as much as the party going to fight them...Interesting , but the problem from that is something I don't understand and would need you , or Dorg, or Chongo or someone that does to explain it to me.
 
 Im guessing, that since on the one hand AI is involved and on the other it is not; that monsters of the same level as a PC are much weaker?
 
 Not sure this has anything to due with anything...but could that be a factor in your solution?

[Falonthas]

cr level of a monster isnt always pc level of the character

a monster could have a cr level of 25 and have a skill the player had at level 10 or vice versa

i think what your saying is when placing spawns and this would take some work not exactly sure how much for chongo is to go into each spawn sets attributes and adjust them to have varied abilities and skills for the group
much like when you have a varied party of lots of skills

a group a giants or whatever, you will always have that one giant who is just an inkling smarter or one who is a half step faster then another

ive been dabbling in the toolset and found the tweak wizard for spawns, so im sure if i can find it  and only being a dabbler ,chongo  can make it look like he has his eyes closed when giving a nudge here and a bum leg there

but then again maybe if casters had not turned into one man solo machines with invis and such trapsing all over  there wouldnt have been need

even in PnP an epic mage didnt go around by himself unless it was for research
think about elminster for example
if he wasnt in shadowdale smoking his pipe and making his presence known to stave off zhent attacks
he was plane walking, or looking for that new recipe for pie
or whatever came of interest to him for that given fortnight

balance can be seen in many lights
perhaps its time to restore old bridges and get a new view

[LynnJuniper]

That is another thing Falon: I am well aware that the few in this case has ruined it for the all. This post was firstly an expression of a feeling. The second feeling I have is frustration at this concept.
 
 I can't solo. I'm scared out of my wits of Rhynn dying. I..forgive me..suck at combat enough as it is without spells being changed and all of the immunities I see when I examine someone.
 
 So Yeah, long and short...Im also frustrated that this type of balance needed to be put in in the first place...
 
 On the other hand...I'm not sure , honeslty, if the players have graduated from needing this , or if any laxation would bring another wave of solo machines with invis.

[Dorganath]

Creature balance has never been something that I'm very good at.  I've only created a handful of creatures in my time here, and most of them were either non-hostile NPCs or used for quest purposes. Only two that I can think of are things that a character will combat, and those are just slightly more difficult versions of what already existed.

I know that there are a ton of new creatures in 3.01.  I think some of the old ones got tweaked.  I honestly have no idea which were and which weren't. I also know that some existing areas have received updated spawn design/layout, though I again do not know which in particular. Definitely questions for Chongo.

I will say from personal experience in PnP gameplay (aaaaages ago) that pure casters, especially arcane casters, were always support classes.  Sometimes that support was buffs to the melee party members, sometimes it was tossing out a summons to distract the enemies, sometimes it was helping to whittle away at the enemies and sometimes it was to provide the "I win" scenario.  It all depends on the situation. And yes, I'd agree that NWN does not provide the depth of spell choices that PnP gaming does, nor does it permit a more creative use of the ones it does have.

Lastly, constructive commentary, even if it's criticism, is not likely to get anyone "in trouble".  The key is remaining constructive and respectful, just like every other post in the community should be.

[LynnJuniper]

Sorry Dorg; I as I often do let paranoia get the better of me there . I think I'm actually more lamenting than directly critisizing.
 
 But yes, Dorg something you stated stuck out really well:
 
 Casters are in NWN, a support class without enough hardcoded spells to play their PNP (Layo to me is closer to PNP than NWN) roles properly.
 
 The only way to solve this one however seems to be on GM quests, where the casters have to say "I want to do [insert spell actually in pnp here] and leave it to the GM to determine if it is indeed possible]. This gets back to a post I've made a while ago about consistancy and opens a whole other can of gummy worms (It wasnt THAT Bad...).
 
 I don't know how to solve the problem:
 
 Very basically:
 I want diversity in my spells. I want my spells to work. I don't want my only job to be casting the same defensive spells followed by the same 3-5 offensive spells that have some history of working. I don't want to give up playing Rhynn because the RP exceeds this mechanics frustration
 
 Solution:
 Fight less RP More? Attend RP heavy quests only? Stop Adventuring? See if things can be changed to favor the things I and others are looking for?
 .....?

[miltonyorkcastle]

Tricky subject, really. Spamming four spells does indeed stink. Moreover, it's true that, for whatever reasons, some folks are more savvy at combat than others.

If Steel can ever get the Dread Blade magic seminars put together (silly mages not being available or not willing to teach or philosophically disagreeing with Steel :p), Rhynn might want to show up.

Seriously, though, they key is having different monsters, not just within spawns, but different enemy types with different weaknesses. Not just mental (will save) weaknesses, or weak fortitude, or low reflex, but damage type weakness, movement speed weaknesses, high/low AC, low/high damage dealers, and high/low HP. You can find these sorts of variances in numerous enemies, from low HP but magically powerful illithid to low AC but high damage dealing bugbears. The issue comes as mentioned before when the same four spells kills the bugbears and the illithids. The point of having weaknesses is to create a need for different strategies. The beauty of playing a wizard is that they are often very versatile in terms of damage dealing... but why use your versatility if you don't have to, or worse, can't?  

This works directly into the problem with evocation. Of course some enemies are going to shrug off or be able to dance past area effect damage spells. The way to make evocationists useful again, then, is not simply to lower reflex saves, but really to examine the weaknesses of the enemies. Add fire vulnerability, or bludgeoning vulnerability to an enemy that is otherwise very powerful and you suddenly have not only a way to defeat the enemy without resorting to the "Spam 4" but you also get parties who study their enemies to discover the enemy weaknesses.

Chongo (and others who have designed creatures for LAyo) showcases this effort in some of his monster designs. Obviously, the cold-based creatures have fire vulnerability. But he also plays with slashing/bludgeoning/piercing vulnerability, and even some magic damage type (isaac's) immunity and resistance. This sort of immunity/weakness balance is particularly important with high-epic CR creatures, who are going to have mind immunities and True Sight. Think about it. Most high-level PC mages walk around with True Sight up 90% of the time. Why would a monster as powerful or more powerful than the PC mage not also maintain TS if they are capable of doing so? And you can't say a high level NPC fighter-type couldn't have it, since most of the time the high level fighter-types are paired with high level casters who could cast in on them.

Creatures types with different sorts of unique vulnerabilities make evocationists more useful. They can use different damage-type spells depending on the enemy weakness.

Of course, the balance here is giving a creature a weakness that makes the creature defeatable in a unique way, while at the same time making sure the weakness isn't such a liability that the creature is completely owned by it. Think of the vampire myths and how even the smallest bit of sunlight turned a vampire to dust. That sort of weakness is an extreme liability, entirely exploitable.

How do balancers deal with this? I'll use an example from one of Chongo's designs. The shackled ettins in the Thunder Peaks have some serious slashing/piercing/bludgeoning (basically all physical damage) vulnerability. However, they also have a large number of HP. So while it's fairly easy to do large amounts of damage to them, they don't get killed in two hits. Moreover, they use varied weapons (fire axes, poison spears, etc.) and special attacks that makes fighting them unpredictable and not just a time-consuming bash-fest that you know you'll win.

So if we're talking about changing high-level monsters so that high-level casters aren't forced to be buff monkeys or use the Spam 4, then we are talking about adding unique weaknesses to the monsters. This also forces mages to carefully consider their spells. In the case of sorcerers, they have to choose if they even want to go into battle with a creature they may not have the means to deafeat, or, even better, to be more well rounded in their adventuring skills, so that they may provide support in some other way than attack and buff spells.

[LynnJuniper]

You know, this is taking it a little off topic, but for that matter you fighters have it bad too.

walk up. Wack. Walk up , smash, walk up hit...

That R Not Be Fun >_>;

Milty: Really good post. And if you Put your merc thing at a time I can get to and Ill try to attend I love having Rhynn discussing things in seminar fashion

PS: You can get slashing Bludgeon etc with magic? *Durr n00b*

About your True sight thing: Thats a pet peeve, really so now I'm going to go into my personal views. Yes Milton you're right. However, if they're casting True Seeing, its very simple. If I cast a spell Breech or a MO's D at them (MOridiwhatever Disjunction) I want to see that True Seeing come off, not still be on them anyway. True seeing as a dispellable spell a monster has /casts ...That's fine, reasonable, understandable.

True seeing hard coded and undispellable on a skin? No. No No no. No. Sorry. No.

>_> Adding a REALLY personal sentiment: I think someone with epic spell focus in illusion should be able to trump a spell that can be cast by level 12 wizards/sorcs and level 5ish clerics.

[merlin34baseball]

My two cents:

Rhynn is right Evocation is useless at higher levels.  Empowered firebrand? Zippo, Empowered Chain Lightning? High level monsters laugh at my spellcaster.  Oh it works great on anything that gives out 1 XP...  and I don't know how weak monsters are that give 1 XP but it has to be pretty weak, compared to character level.

And I'm not high enough level to cast the 4 spells that work.  So, buff buff buff, poke em with a sword...

[miltonyorkcastle]

Also, I forgot to mention this, but it goes along with what Dorg said about support roles.

Area of effect spells (the mainstay of Evokers) are not meant to obliterate or even just kill the enemy unless the enemy is very weak. Area of effect spells are designed to soften a group of enemies. They are literally the artillery of the magic world. AoE spells function just like catapults and ballistae in medieval warfare. They are used to take down enemy defenses (walls, etc.), and to scatter or weaken the enemy in field campaigns ("field campaign" means not attacking or defending a fortress/city), so that the main force of soldiers could finish the job. Artillery alone couldn't/can't take a city or win a field battle on its own. The main fighting force always has to finish the job. I could go into some of the strategies used, but that would take too long. Suffice it to say, if you expect AoE spells to do the work of the artillery and the foot-soldiers, you'll be sadly disappointed.

Again, another reason why mages are smart to learn how to do more than chuck spells if they want to be more than a bump on a log after they toss the intial artillery attack.

Buff, buff, buff, poke 'em with a sword is what all warriors do (magically inclined or otherwise), and ultimately what always has to be done to win the hard battles. A mage that learns how to switch between spells and sword poking is a wise mage indeed, not a weak mage.

[LynnJuniper]

Yeah Milty but theres a difference between softening everyone up and seeing pretty lights flash and nothing take any damage.Ever.

[miltonyorkcastle]

Setting SR and DR aside and simply looking at reflex saves, and more importantly, Evasion, since it's this feat that prevents many AoE spells from doing any damage, I can point to numerous AoE spells that are not subject to reflex saves. Of course, many of them don't produce as much potential damage as the reflex-based AoE's do, and many of them are in the School of Necromancy, not Evocation. Still, such spells as Ice Storm or Horizikaul's Boom are virtually guaranteed to do damage (very few enemies have DR verses sonic and there is no save versus Ice Storm), and while they do considerably less damage than a delayed blast fireball, they are still capable of damaging multiple opponents.

Two points then:

1) If you rely on AoE to make a living, then creatures with Evasion and high saves will always be your bane. But you are not without recourse.

2) Be versatile.

[Dorganath]

One comment on the True Seeing ability thing...

The key problem there is that Bioware didn't include anything that would either approximate a complete (or near complete) immunity to illusions for those insanely high-CR nasties (demons, etc.), nor did they include anything that some underground dwellers possess in the form of "tremor sense" or something similar, meaning they don't need to "see" to detect and target in on movement.

Those are the two main reasons why some creatures have True Seeing as a permanent ability, and that should never be dispellable.  Also, the ability to hide/sneak/become invisible should never be foolproof in all situations, IMHO.

Speaking of dispelling, that can be one very effective way of weakening a target or a group of targets.  Dispel, Spell Breach, Mordenkainen's Disjunction...While not doing any damage (well, possibly in the case that they have CON buffs active), they can make a target "softer" and easier to kill.  I also find counterspelling is a good, effective way to help out a party facing casters.  Again, while not doing direct damage, you're effectively giving your party a boost by removing some bite from the attackers.

Alright, so that was more than one comment... :\

[LynnJuniper]

That is a good idea: But why is it that when I cast Dispell , I still cant use illusions on them, I know because its hard coded. Are you saying its because you're using True Seeing to represent more than one thing? Some things that SHOULD enver be dispelled, but arent implimented are also portrayed as "True seeing"

Suggestion: Change true seeing to the following

See Invisibility + Ultravision + 10 To Spot Checks + ___ against Mind Spells and/or Illusions

(I know you can get immunities to spell schools through Shadow sheild. is an increased but not full immunity possible?)

I've seen other servers change true seeing to something like this, and always wondered why we didnt.

[lonnarin]

My main problem with the spell system we have on the server is how enemy spellcasters seem to have unlimited castings/day... something that not even a lvl 40 ultra-epic PC can do.  I remember at the Battle of Stone where we had almost driven off the invasion force, then a major lag spike hit us all, which mysteriously did not affect the tiefling sorceresses' ability to cast missiles.  Needless to say, over the course of the next 3-5 minutes, Bjornigar and friends just stood there motionless while around 2000 missiles spewed forth from all of 2-3 sorceresses.  Had their casting abilities been truly balanced, they would have gotten off 10 tops and we would have all survived their pathetic attempts to enter melee.  Stone would never have been rubble.  10,000 little deep gnomes would still be alive today.

My next biggest gripe is with NPC creature balance.  Looking around at all the deep dwarves in Prantz, I really would like to know where they got all this uber gear which gives them immunity to mind effects, sneak attacks, poison, disease, paralyzation, death attacks, true seeing and a constant regeneration effect on them.  If I as a player ever stumbled across an item that bestowed any ONE of these effects, I know full well that it would be taken away from me in the name of balance.

Third, I have never found material components on the corpse of an enemy caster who cast spells with required components.  It's pretty annoying when players have to spend three consecutive feats for an ability that every NPC seems to be born with innately.

[Dorganath]

Dispel does nothing against creature properties, clearly.  Some creatures, IMHO, should have True Seeing permanently, others should have a way to detect movement of the invisible, others should simply have very high resistance (or immunity) to illusion. But since we don't have all of those, mechanically, the closest approximation is True Seeing. Mind-affecting isn't just specific to illusions. It's more relevant to Enchantment, really.

As to why we've never changed True Seeing? Honestly, I don't know, though it would likely throw things off a bit at this point, as things have been designed with True Seeing being what it is. I'm not sure it's fair though to give sneaking such a boost by that, since people use sneaking to walk around out in the open.  And yeah, that's a problem with how sneaking works in NWN, which is why I think True Seeing works as it does for non-invisible hidden characters.

Any change to True Seeing though would not affect creature properties though (I'm pretty sure), only the spell.  They work through different mechanisms.

[Dorganath]

My main problem with the spell system we have on the server is how enemy spellcasters seem to have unlimited castings/day... something that not even a lvl 40 ultra-epic PC can do.  I remember at the Battle of Stone where we had almost driven off the invasion force, then a major lag spike hit us all, which mysteriously did not affect the tiefling sorceresses' ability to cast missiles.  Needless to say, over the course of the next 3-5 minutes, Bjornigar and friends just stood there motionless while around 2000 missiles spewed forth from all of 2-3 sorceresses.  Had their casting abilities been truly balanced, they would have gotten off 10 tops and we would have all survived their pathetic attempts to enter melee.  Stone would never have been rubble.  10,000 little deep gnomes would still be alive today.

My next biggest gripe is with NPC creature balance.  Looking around at all the deep dwarves in Prantz, I really would like to know where they got all this uber gear which gives them immunity to mind effects, sneak attacks, poison, disease, paralyzation, death attacks, true seeing and a constant regeneration effect on them.  If I as a player ever stumbled across an item that bestowed any ONE of these effects, I know full well that it would be taken away from me in the name of balance.

Third, I have never found material components on the corpse of an enemy caster who cast spells with required components.  It's pretty annoying when players have to spend three consecutive feats for an ability that every NPC seems to be born with innately.

Um...

Creatures still have spell lists and use/day feats/abilities, and that works just as it does for PCs.  They are however immune to client and network lag, so what they can do under such circumstances and what a PC can do will be quite different.  They don't have any unlimited spells per day though.

The NPCs in Prantz are monks...very high-level and elite monks. So a lot of this "gear" is just their natural abilities:

Purity of Body: Level 5 - Immunity to non-magical disease
Diamond Body: Level 11 - Immunity to poisons
Diamond Soul: Level 12 - Spell Resistance
Empty Body: Level 18 - 50% concealment
Perfect Self: Level 20 - Immunity to Mind Affecting and 20/+1 DR

As for the others: You're wrong if you stumbled upon them they'd be taken away.  Permanent regeneration items exist in-game, Death magic immunity items exist, etc.  

Incidentally, these monks were written to be, and approved as, extremely tough and formidable opponents.  Besides, you should not be picking fights in Prantz!

Lootable components...did you notice you also can't take their shoes, clothes and other equipment?  Come on, this is such a silly argument and is based solely on how loot generation works and nothing else.

[LynnJuniper]

Yeah dorg, it probably wouldnt effect the properties But instead you could give them +___ to spot skill, ultravision and see invisibility instead of TS! :-)

Back to the original topic, is there anything that can be done to add a diversity to spells worth using?

[Pibemanden]

The problem is that mages should be able to do everything themselves, however it shouldn't be impossible for them to do everything alone either. It is pretty hard to handle since a mage could potentially go all out on any spawn at any time, however this is a very dangerous tactics since you will be pretty much out untill you can rest again. I think there isn't a trivial solution to this since, sure giving everything different saves they are good at will just make the soloing mages spellbook look a bit more varied and ready for everything, which in this case is that some things might save against the fireball but the horrid wilting takes them appart.
However this update have made a balanced party more needed than ever, this is fairly new to most since you in the past were relying heavily on the casters for backup fire, you needed them to take out a huge portion of the spawn in order to make your chances better. Now mages are more the part of the group that stands back and tries to focus their spells where they are needed, directing them to the right target which is pretty hard in combat when everyone is running all over.
So mages have been reduced a fair bit in worth now it seems if you look at the damage and kill output you get as a mage. Sure some melees might tune in and point out that,hey you have a spell that does 20d6 damage or outright killing a few things in one blow and we can never get near that. Well sure, but a pure mage wont get near dishing out 30+ damage every round as long as he is standing.
However if you are outside the no magic zone the fighter would be very poor off without a mage and/or cleric things have a lot of icky abilities you want to ward against so you don't get killed within the first seconds of battle because you got leveldrained and things started hitting you for a lot of damage with no healing in sight((This is just one example of what could happen to a fighter)).
This is mostly covering the mechanics part of things, since that was what it was about at first. The problem is that this collides with the RP aspect of things. Because as people point out most epic mages spend their time planewalking and generally doing strange things like that. However this isn't really possible here without a DM present, most of the things mages really do aren't really possible without DM involvement.
So in the end mages are left as magical arteliry unless the DM allows them to do more, which might be a slippery slope since there aren't really any standarts as to what mages can't and can do right now. So making it up to the DMs alone can create a lot of I-could-do-that-then-but-can't-do-it-now claims. However setting standarts is also quite hard unless we simply just put them down by the d20 books for now and then just scrap it when the handbook actually comes out.
The problem then would be that you can't actually use them in combat at any rate unless there is a DM around, so you will still have problems there. Another thing is that people might end up crying unfair because some might get more attention to do things than others and so on. Therefore most casters are relying on their nwn spellbook for their spells and nothing else.
This limits the caster a lot since you basicly got ye olde damage spells and buff spells and that is it. But well you can do funny things with those too, however it doesn't really show some of the magic schools, as I assume we still have them, from their right side. Abjuration isn't just Dispell-breach-banish-(a few protective spells here) it is a whole range of protective spells according to the d20 books, what it will be in the "real" layo(if it will be) I don't know but still.
So my point being, right now magic is rather undefined and it will probably be for some time which makes it hard for people to find uses for it since what goes one quest might not go another. And on combat we are stuck with the old spells which aren't all that flexible but still works if used at the right time and on the right creature.