Author Topic: Counterspells (Read 106 times)

SquareKnot · « **on:** October 17, 2005, 02:09:00 pm »

I've played a wizard all through SoU, but I've never tried to counterspell until recently. I thought it was a targeted attack, but when I press the toolbar button (I've heard using the buttonbar wasn't allowed for awhile, but seems to be fixed) I've set up with counterspell, it just puts me into counterspell mode without a specific target. Fine, I say, I will just counterspell any enemy spellcaster in the area. But when I go up against one, nothing happens. Is it possible that my spellcraft is just too low or something? Does it just have to be enough to recognize the spell, or greater than that? I have lesser dispell, and can see that "Enemy caster is casting " So if I have lesser dispell and recognize the spell, what am I missing? Thanks

Filatus · « **Reply #1 on:** October 17, 2005, 02:48:00 pm »

I think it should be enough. Although there is one thing to consider. Most spells have special counter spells. Like greater shadow conjuration for true seeing. Lesser, normal and greater dispell can be used for every spell. But it could be that lesser dispell only works for, say 1st, 2nd and 3rd level spells.

Vyris · « **Reply #2 on:** October 17, 2005, 02:49:00 pm »

I believe you HAVE to use the radial menu and target a specific spellcaster. Talk to Doc-Holiday, he's pretty well mastered it.

Vyris

Filatus · « **Reply #3 on:** October 17, 2005, 02:50:00 pm »

Ehm well, yes. I thought you at least rightclicked the caster and had chosen counterspell.

SquareKnot · « **Reply #4 on:** October 17, 2005, 03:24:00 pm »

No, I was trying to use the toolbar. So maybe the bug with using the toolbar _hasn't_ been fixed. Funny though, that the words "Counterspell Mode Active" appear over my head. I guess that's why it's a bug... I'll try using the radial menu as soon as I can get back on. If I can get it working, then I'll have to see if does any good. It's more of a role-play thing, for me anyway.

Thanks everyone.

Pankoki · « **Reply #5 on:** October 17, 2005, 03:44:00 pm »

Actually, what you were likely seeing was "Defensive Casting Mode Active". That isn't counterspell mode, that is the mode in which you do not provoke attacks of opportunity when casting spells but need to make a concentration check in order to succeed in the casting.
Counterspell mode indeed needs the use of the radial on the enemy, you will notice it works since your character will stand in "Ready" mode waiting for a spell to be cast.

Talan Va'lash · « **Reply #6 on:** October 17, 2005, 04:30:00 pm »

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Pankoki - 10/17/2005 4:44 PM Actually, what you were likely seeing was "Defensive Casting Mode Active". That isn't counterspell mode, that is the mode in which you do not provoke attacks of opportunity when casting spells but need to make a concentration check in order to succeed in the casting.
Counterspell mode indeed needs the use of the radial on the enemy, you will notice it works since your character will stand in "Ready" mode waiting for a spell to be cast.

yep. It really sucks that you can't put it in a quickslot and use it like an active combat feat like knockdown or called shot. The radial is just too slow. -TV

SquareKnot · « **Reply #7 on:** October 17, 2005, 04:40:00 pm »

Yes, that was it -- "Defensive Casting Mode Active". Humm, I'm learning all kinds of things. I didn't even know there was a Defensive Casting Mode. Interesting. Now I just have to master the radial menu, and I'm all set. Thanks for all the good info.

SquareKnot · « **Reply #8 on:** October 17, 2005, 05:44:00 pm »

Oh, one last thing. Does anyone know if CounterSpelling someone is considered a hostile action? If I were to CounterSpell another player, for example, would the faction change, such that we would be hostile toward one another? I suppose there's an easy way to find out, but I'd prefer to avoid the whole PK token thing when the other guy fries me.

Oh, and one last, last thing. Can you counterspell all spells a caster is trying to cast, or only offensive spells against you? For example, if an enemy spellcaster is trying to cast invisibility on herself, can you counter that?

Oh, and one very, very last thing. How does divine magic vs arcane magic figure into this? Can a wizard counter a cleric's spell? From what I read, the answer is yes, but I've been wrong about so much of this so far, I thought I'd ask. If I remember right, the system can't tell the difference between the divine version of a spell and the arcane one, so I imagine it would work. Are there role-play implications to this? Could a low level wizard really stop the power of the gods?

Sorry to drag this out. I just want to get a clear pciture of this whole counterspelling thing. The Bioware pages are oddly silent on most of this stuff.

Filatus · « **Reply #9 on:** October 17, 2005, 05:50:00 pm »

The faction will not change, but as long as you're on Counterspelling other players can't rest.

You can counter all spells. Except for instant metamagic spells, since you don't have time for a spellcraft check.

And yes, a wizard can counter a cleric's spell.

I'd like to add that wizards don't make the best counterspellers though. A sorceror is the best for it of course. But still, you can use a wizard to counter those first spells a hostile mage casts to give your partymembers the time to get to him.

Pankoki · « **Reply #10 on:** October 17, 2005, 05:53:00 pm »

Counterspelling is not considered a hostile action. Just make sure countering another player's spell doesn't put him in danger otherwise its considered griefing.
You can counterspell anything as long as you have a version of dispel magic ready or the same spell (or specific counterspell) the creature is trying to cast.
Arcane and divine both can counter each other. NWN doesn't differentiate from either, and I think you dont either in PnP. Not sure but it works either way.
Heh don't worry about asking, as long as they are not the same questions we don't mind answering. I always like smart mages that just don't blow up everything they see or simply morph into Tenser and try to act as a fighter so I'm happy to give alternatives to mages.

Guardian 452 · « **Reply #11 on:** October 18, 2005, 01:35:00 am »

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Pankoki - 10/17/2005 7:53 PM I always like smart mages that just don't blow up everything they see or simply morph into Tenser and try to act as a fighter so I'm happy to give alternatives to mages.

Thunder Pants · « **Reply #12 on:** October 18, 2005, 02:57:00 am »

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Filatus - 10/17/2005 5:50 PM

The faction will not change, but as long as you're on Counterspelling other players can't rest.

You can counter all spells. Except for instant metamagic spells, since you don't have time for a spellcraft check.

And yes, a wizard can counter a cleric's spell.

I'd like to add that wizards don't make the best counterspellers though. A sorceror is the best for it of course. But still, you can use a wizard to counter those first spells a hostile mage casts to give your partymembers the time to get to him.

actually unless there has been a change since the earlier days of NWN you can't counter any spells that are cast using meta magic feats

also the spells required to counter an opponants spells are either the spell being cast, the alternative counter spell or a dispell magic of apropiate level

errk · « **Reply #13 on:** October 18, 2005, 07:12:00 am »

Just wondering, any chance someone could give in game education with counter-spelling and other techniques for tricky spell defenses. spell breach and greater dispell come to mind..

Prehaps a service the Arcane guild could provide?

I always seem to be a bit to late remembering that I have the option to counter spell. (usually after my party has been hit by a couple of cones of cold, fire brands or other mass horrible effects)

Filatus · « **Reply #14 on:** October 18, 2005, 07:32:00 am »

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Thunder Pants - 10/18/2005 11:57 AM

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Filatus - 10/17/2005 5:50 PM

The faction will not change, but as long as you're on Counterspelling other players can't rest.

You can counter all spells. Except for instant metamagic spells, since you don't have time for a spellcraft check.

And yes, a wizard can counter a cleric's spell.

I'd like to add that wizards don't make the best counterspellers though. A sorceror is the best for it of course. But still, you can use a wizard to counter those first spells a hostile mage casts to give your partymembers the time to get to him.

actually unless there has been a change since the earlier days of NWN you can't counter any spells that are cast using meta magic feats

also the spells required to counter an opponants spells are either the spell being cast, the alternative counter spell or a dispell magic of apropiate level

I think they changed the metamagic feats. I played the original campaign with a sorceror and used every metamagic feat. When casting a spell with a metamagicfeat, the log would say,

Char A casts metamagic: silent 'spellname'

Or something in that order. It doesn't do that anymore.

Doc-Holiday · « **Reply #15 on:** October 18, 2005, 10:34:00 am »

Hi!

Doc-Holiday here,

I suppose this topic has been neigh beaten to death but let me put my two whacks in.

Rules for counter-spell:

1. use the radial menue to select "counter-spell" on your target

2. You MUST have points in Spellcraft to identify the spell

3. You MUST have memorized or know the countering spell :

A: any of the Dispels (I am currently studying their effective counter range)

B: The SAME spell being cast (magic missle counters magic missle)

C: You have the spell that is SPECIFICLY identified by the target spell's description as an aditional counter (Darkness identifies Light (vise versa) Goul Touch identifies minor healing)

4. Be in range... you cannot be a mile away and counter any more. You must initialize "Counter-Spell" on a target at least 25-30 feet distance max.

5. IMPORTANT! you sacrafice spells to counter... be aware of what you have left... you can save alot of pain by counter BUT! you often leave yourself drained and you cannot do anything while countering, all of your energy is focused on a single caster in order to stop those spells and you leave youself open to attack.

6. You CANNOT counter Epic spells... sorry just can't be done. For these cases, have a sutible spell crasher.. for gate... use dismisal or banish... for those nasty shield spells... spell breach... for the pesky exploding ball of uber death... well... a good elemental shield and a quick healer.

Tips:

A few things to keep in mind, Counter Spell is NOT a hostile move. You can counter spell while invisible to save yourself the pain of angry fighters. It also makes for a great surprise to enemy spellcasters when they fail every spell for no apparent reason.

Please keep in mind that Counter will only work on Divine and Arcane spells, you CANNOT counter a monster ability or an inate ability. Ogers WILL cast invisiblilty as an inate spell for example.

Practice and experiment, be vigilent for casters and anticipate when they will cast a spell, if in doubt have a spell stripper ready (spell breach) to drop those defencive spells.

Be patient, most mages want to wow everyone with their awsome spells; just keep in mind that the enemy spell uncast does no damage to your party and that is always impressive.

Shutting down a healer hastens the inevitable end of your enemies and increases the chances that your fighters won't die, you can counter healing spells.

Conserve your magic... fighters can handle most battles so long as you keep them well fed and cared for. A good buff and a few counters will clear the way for them to do what needs to be done.

Doc-Holiday · « **Reply #16 on:** October 18, 2005, 11:10:00 am »

Speak with Weston in-game about a Counter Magic Lesson and he will gladly take the time to share his knowledge with you as any Lucinda Faithful would.

Vyris · « **Reply #17 on:** October 18, 2005, 12:37:00 pm »

Like I said, Doc has this counterspelling thing pretty well down to a science. It is extremely usefull, a thinking mans magic for sure.

Doc-Holiday · « **Reply #18 on:** October 18, 2005, 01:19:00 pm »

I reject your magic and substitute my own

SquareKnot · « **Reply #19 on:** October 18, 2005, 01:56:00 pm »

Thanks everyone. This has been a very useful discussion. Last night I took on an enemy mage and completely shut her down, spell for counterspell. After she ran out of spells, she attacked with a dagger and my summon just shredded her. After playing NWN for what seems like years, it was fun to do something different.

My mind is still spinning with ways to apply counterspelling. The fun is back. Woo Hoo.