Dodge mods and stacking.

[ThrainSil]

I am trying to figure out if the dwarven dodge modifier Vs. Giants stacks with the ascenders march boots (also vs giants).  Not sure really sometimes it seems it does and sometimes not. Any help would be welcome.

[laurabunny]

It should do.  I think Dodge modifiers always stack.

[Chongo]

Dodge bonuses stack up to +20.  That's all modifiers from all spells or items added up.

Natural, Armor, and Deflection AC's don't stack, they take the single highest modifier.  There is one exception to this, and it's with shields.  Shield Armor AC bonuses stack with worn armor Armor AC.

Dodge bonuses come from things like bardsong, divine shield, boot AC bonuses, haste, and several others.  So an example of this would be haste (4) + bardsong (5) + ascenders march (+3 vs. giants) + dwarf (+4 vs. giants) + DD stance (+4 AC)= +20 dodge AC (vs. giants that is).  Now any other dodge bonuses beyond this won't add value to your AC.  But +20 is still a lot .  It is important to note that when flatfooted a dodge AC bonus will be negated.  Flatfooted, as Talan recently clarified for me despite thinking I knew everything about NWN for the past several years, is when something gets you while stunned, KD'd, otherwise disabled, or if they come out of the shadows to hit you.  It's not when you get flanked (attacked from an angle behind you).  That's totally separate and is a -2 AC penalty (which everyone should be using in combat against the enemy! flank flank flank!).  Thanks Talan for actually reading the scripts on these things.

Hope that's 1) accurate and 2) helps.

[ThrainSil]

Ah many thanks to laurabunny and Chongo.

[Kiba]

I would have to kindly disagree on youre causes for flatfootedness, not that any of them are wrong, but there are a few more ppl should be aware of, maybe it goes under the "otherwise disabled" category...

Obviously if youre currently looting a corpse i.e you have clicked on the corpse you have youre inventory open to that corpse, you are otherwise disabled.

There is an odd one, that me and Xiao Lin found out about a while ago, when using flurry of blows with the dodge feat.  There are a few different circumstances I have had it occure under, but the nost consistant is this: Fighting against two or more enemies,  you kill one of the enimies you attempt a dodge and the dodge misses, and instead of continuing with attacking youre flurry of blows automaticly deactivates itself and you just stand there flatfooted, with my monk I would go from an armor class of around 35 to an armor class of 18 when flatfooted, witch realy succed when the circumstances were like, six enimies, becuase you pretty much die in about two rounds, ucky.  It also seems to happen ever more commonly when you are fighting with someone else, and when you kill an opponent and the text above youre head says cleave "hit", and just before the actualy graffic of youre cleave hitting and the damage actualy showing up you allie kills that enemy, and again all of a sudden youre flurry of blows auto deactivates and you just stand there flatfooted.

Now there is a way to save youreself, but you just have to be realy quick on the draw, when you notice the circumstance is about to happen you imediatly give a command through youre mouse to attack another enimy that close enough that you will hit them and not get the "cannot reach target" response.  Cue it a couple times too, becuase it seems when the instance occurs it clears all cues, including youre current cue to be fighting that enemy, I dont know if that is the root of the problem, but its my guess.... So you just have to on top of things and make sure you dont stop watching you char while it is surounded by enemies, and you will usualy be okay, but I still get random times where even through all my efforts I end up standing there flatfooted for a round for no reason, and the random monster rolls a 4 for an attack roll and hits me - the worst acctualy is when the random monster doesnt have enough attack bonus to hit you, so it will only ever hit you with a crit strike, and he manages to pull a crit strike in that moment of flatfootedness, then pulls another one as soon as you recover, and youre left with half youre hp gone going that realy sucked.

Anyway its late and im tired so of course I typed about a page more than I probably had too....sorry

[Talan Va'lash]

Reasons for being flatfooted (comprehensive as far as nwn goes unless I forget something):

1. If you are performing no action (aka just standing there.)

2. If you have not yet attacked in the current battle.
 - a) If you click on an enemy, he beats your initiative roll and attacks, YOU ARE FLATFOOTED UNTIL YOUR TURN TO ATTACK COMES UP. So his first hit or two is against your flatfooted AC.
 - b) If you click to attack a nearby meleer and the enemy archers beat your initiative, they make their attacks against your flatfooted AC.
 - c) You are no longer flatfooted once you have begun taking actions (i.e. attacking, spellcasting, using items.)
 - d) Basically, if your character looks like he's in battle stance and about to do something you are not flatfooted. However some actions like drinking a potion leave you standing there flatfooted after you complete them. To avoid this put your next action in the queue before your character finishes the drink potion action.

3. You are in some way disabled
 - a) Stunned, charmed or confused into just standing there (though this is more the above two rules in action than an effect of the enchantment) held, bigby'ed (dependant on the effect.)
 - b) You are knocked down

4. (just to cover my bases) You are performing an action that explicitly states that you will be flatfooted while performing it ;P

----

Oh as for flanking. That is not an AC penalty for the flanked creature, its a +2 AB bonus for the flanking creatures.

Thats mostly a semantic difference as the effect is the same. I don't recall off hand if that is the D&D implementation or whether it was modified for NWN.

[Marswipp]

Flanking and being cornered are in D&D 3.5, so they might be in there in D&D 3...

[laurabunny]

Talan Va'lash - 11/18/2006  3:52 AM

Oh as for flanking. That is not an AC penalty for the flanked creature, its a +2 AB bonus for the flanking creatures.

Thats mostly a semantic difference as the effect is the same. I don't recall off hand if that is the D&D implementation or whether it was modified for NWN.

Not quite just semantics.  Enemy ranged attackers don't get a bonus to hit, it's only those actually flanking.

Also: referenced in Chongo's comment, but not explicitly stated here - Sneak Attack only has to beat your flat-footed AC, I believe.

[Stephen_Zuckerman]

Shield bonuses also do not apply to a flanking attacker.

[Chongo]

I love learning new things.

[Talan Va'lash]

Stephen_Zuckerman - 11/18/2006  9:14 PM

Shield bonuses also do not apply to a flanking attacker.

I am uncertain whether this rule is used in NWN.

[Talan Va'lash]

laurabunny - 11/18/2006  8:32 PM

Talan Va'lash - 11/18/2006  3:52 AM

Oh as for flanking. That is not an AC penalty for the flanked creature, its a +2 AB bonus for the flanking creatures.

Thats mostly a semantic difference as the effect is the same. I don't recall off hand if that is the D&D implementation or whether it was modified for NWN.

Not quite just semantics.  Enemy ranged attackers don't get a bonus to hit, it's only those actually flanking.

Also: referenced in Chongo's comment, but not explicitly stated here - Sneak Attack only has to beat your flat-footed AC, I believe.

Sneak attack only gets to use your flatfooted AC if the reason they are getting a sneak attack is because you are flatfooted.

A rogue can sneak attack if the opponent is flatfooted OR if they are in combat and attacking another target.

In the first case they make an attack roll vs the target's flatfooted ac, the second they use the full ac.

----

I stand by my above post as a comprehensive list of when you are flatfooted in -NWN- (not D&D)

[Eight-Bit]

Stephen_Zuckerman - 11/18/2006 11:14 PM Shield bonuses also do not apply to a flanking attacker.

 I can say with the most confidence I can muster (which is usually a 'maybe') that shield AC, regardless of if you are being flanked or not, remains regardless.

[Filatus]

Sheez.. you think someone who has been playing this for a few years should know this stuff.

Keep'm coming please.

[Stephen_Zuckerman]

Eight-Bit - 11/19/2006  3:29 PM    

Stephen_Zuckerman - 11/18/2006 11:14 PM Shield bonuses also do not apply to a flanking attacker.

 I can say with the most confidence I can muster (which is usually a 'maybe') that shield AC, regardless of if you are being flanked or not, remains regardless.

 Really? Och. That's odd... Ah, well. NWN.

[darkstorme]

Such is the glory of a discretionary ruleset made automatic.

[NEXUS7]

so how dos blind fighting work, dos thath counter snick attacks flat footed bonuses

[Talan Va'lash]

NEXUS7 - 11/20/2006  12:44 AM

so how dos blind fighting work, dos thath counter snick attacks flat footed bonuses

I'm not entirely sure off hand. It does, however, let you reroll any missed concealment rolls (every time you attack a concealed enemy, due to a concealment spell they have or you being blinded, you make a % roll and if you roll less than their concealment % the attack misses regardless of your attack roll.)  With blindfight you get to roll again to see you if really hit.

It also mentions that it removes the bonus that invisible creatures get when attacking you. Frankly, I'm not entirely sure what rule this is refering to.

[Stephen_Zuckerman]

Invisible or concealed creatures get a +4 or +2 to hit.

Bilndfight negates this.

At least in PnP (and I'm not TOTALLY sure of this rule).