Makes sense. I guess when in doubt, don't go there.
Quote:KageKeeper - 12/9/2006 11:08 PM Quote:My rule of thumb is if I HAVE to lure the baddies out one at a time to survive an encounter, it is probably over my head and I need to get help or find another place to be. That, I think, is an excellent rule of thumb to have. It's an admirable rule of thumb, but I don't know if it's realistic. In fact I'll say it's wildly unrealistic and will put that person at a significant and unfounded disadvantage. There is not one person on this server that I've seen not lure. Not one. If it takes greater then a group of level 6+ 20-37's to take on the *full* encounter of a +3 (mithril or emeralds) item spawn... then it's time to reconsider balance vs. tactics. Until then I'll stay alive going for what a caster can get at level 15, and follow suit in basic luring. I don't feel bad luring groups of 2's and 3's of drowrogues off diamond spawns. They can still ruin my day and the risk is wild for something that yields a raise dead scroll or two. I certainly don't feel bad in partaking in the lure of 2's and 3's off emerald spawns. No one traps creatures in immovable spots, no one uses abusive tactics to create unrealistic impossibilities. But so far I've not seen one person who assumes the travel of voice pertains to the natural balance of the world. You simply can't formulate generalizations on realism versus mechanics. I'm sure that in an ideal world the realisms would pertain, that the bell toll would resound throughout the drow city and 1000's would come running. But the reality of the system is clear here, and it shows a distinct sense of retrobalance towards logical playstyles. That is, pulling a fragment of the 8 creatures spawned, and dealing with them in a fair manner that doesn't abuse walkmesh. The staff seems to effectively balance to a level consistent with what AI can do. This explains the fact that it takes so many player resources to get to the bottom of the underdark, or likewise the bottom of the rift. These are +3 and +2 CNR areas respectively. By caster magic level that is level 15 and 10 respectively. It is clearly balanced so that you need to be intelligent in dealing with the enemies there. And by 'clearly', I mean that if it takes a 32,24,24,21,22 and 23... (well balanced in all class facets)... to get a +3 CNR in a manner that involves luring groups of 2's and 3's, then it's clear that was the intention. My rule of thumb is that you should never: - Trap enemies in natural features so that they can not move - Trap/ confuse enemies via varying cliff levels - Corner trap enemies using AI lock-ins that won't wrap around a corner - Trap enemies on AI lock-in's (around corners or level breaks) using AoE spells to slowly kill But by all means: - Lure 2's and 3's under the usual stress of major risk of that massively powerful spawn - Use bottlenecks to manage the masses of enemies in a favorable sense to your group, as long as they aren't 'dumbed' by the bottleneck you're using (i.e. there's another avenue of getting to you that they could take, but is out of range of what their AI picks up) - Use bottlenecks to plant AoE spells in favor of your effort, as long as they aren't 'dumbed' by the bottleneck you're using - Plant spells like SoV, Blade Barrier, fogs, fire walls, etc... in the path of their anticipated attack if that helps your cause. The general rule of thumb where you shouldn't have a bad conscience after using a 'tactic' is pretty fair. But everyone's learning curve and/ or progression on the scale of normal NWN AI is different. So it's hard to measure things on conscience. Please correct me if I'm not keeping to the intent of the server. That said, if I'm not, then it's time to re-evaluate the retrobalancing due to normal player tactics, and the baseline responses towards access vs. balancing as a whole. Because it's fairly clear, especially with +2 and +3 CNR's, that the intended behavior planned upon involves luring, and that any individual that assumes full realities of carrying sound/ group bahavior will be hit with overly punitive balancing.There's only so much you can do with the NWN engine and available AI systems. I say just don't abuse walkmesh.