Author Topic: Orcs, Arrows, and Run for your Lives! (Read 462 times)

Stephen_Zuckerman · « **on:** March 02, 2007, 09:02:58 pm »

So, Central crashed. Whoops.

Witch Hunter · « **Reply #1 on:** March 02, 2007, 11:16:49 pm »

Yep so we are just led to assume that I single handly went and killed the Orcish warlord thus saving the day (again), of course, the people of Dalanthar were so glad they decided to reward me with much gold and xp...

And at least ten nuggets of mithril, of course.

scifibarbie · « **Reply #2 on:** March 02, 2007, 11:25:26 pm »

but we all know the truth of the matter is that the dwarves truly saved the day. Bringin everyone home safe...relatively at any rate.

Witch Hunter · « **Reply #3 on:** March 02, 2007, 11:26:46 pm »

As long as the good folk of Dalanthar rewarded me said rewards.

Stephen_Zuckerman · « **Reply #4 on:** March 03, 2007, 03:03:52 am »

I've got to say that Rhynn and Jin saved the day... Let's hear it for real direction.

LynnJuniper · « **Reply #5 on:** March 03, 2007, 06:45:13 am »

*coughs , remains silent, points in the direction of Pyyran/Steve , and walks away*

Grats all, and the Bonsey too! Good Quest!

Eight-Bit · « **Reply #6 on:** March 03, 2007, 09:09:13 am »

I did my side of the bargain. But, I should have taken into consideration weather a group that size could actually work together.

twidget658 · « **Reply #7 on:** March 03, 2007, 10:21:47 am »

*laughs* I must have been on another quest.

I saw one person trying to task individuals and organize the whole thing. Then I saw others that were barking orders, complaining, adding to the chaos, not listening to anyone, and doing their own thing. When 'their own thing' failed, they blamed the others. The reason why there was no unity...certain people trying to lead without the support of the group.

Why do some people not talk or offer suggestions? Once the self-proclaimed leader, not the one that was chosen by the party, ignores people and doesn't listen, people shut down. They know that their input or suggestions will fall upon deaf ears. What is the use?

When a person is leading a group, let them lead and support them, offer up suggestions, don't try to push them aside and try to take over. It makes people 'just follow' and not aid in the quest.

Jin was doing a fine job. He was assigning people in according to their skills. And then he was doing something else...he listened to them. What a novel concept.

Another thing that doesn't help...people with secrets or knowing certain information, holding it to themselves and acting on it. By not sharing this information with the rest of the party keeps people confused. That is selfish and unfair to the party. It also prevents people from being included in the process of planning.

A party that size can work together, but not with leaders who think they can complete the whole quest themselves. There was very little two-way communication.

Ioskeha · « **Reply #8 on:** March 03, 2007, 10:31:20 am »

Quote

twidget658 - 3/3/2007 10:21 AM

Why do some people not talk or offer suggestions? Once the self-proclaimed leader, not the one that was chosen by the party, ignores people and doesn't listen, people shut down. They know that their input or suggestions will fall upon deaf ears. What is the use?

When a person is leading a group, let them lead and support them, offer up suggestions, don't try to push them aside and try to take over. It makes people 'just follow' and not aid in the quest.

This is way I left. The so called "leaders" wern't listening to anything anyone was saying but a select few. I would have left the quest a lot sooner then my PC did, but I didn't have a good enough role-playing reason to. There were a few times I just went AFK during the quest, because I knew that it didn't matter if I knew what was going on or not. My PC would just be ignored.

Eight-Bit · « **Reply #9 on:** March 03, 2007, 10:34:27 am »

Let me speak in their defense, however, as following a situation quickly and clearly with a group like that and everyone acting in their own direction is very difficult.

Ioskeha · « **Reply #10 on:** March 03, 2007, 10:42:47 am »

Like twidget658 said; A party that large can work. I've been on many quests in the past with parties the same size or larger. And most of the time they went smoothly. The main difference between those and this one is the leaders listened to the input of everyone else there. This one felt like someones personal CDQ. Once their PCs made up their mind about something that was the way it was going to be. No amount of input from anyone else was going to change their minds.

twidget658 · « **Reply #11 on:** March 03, 2007, 10:43:05 am »

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Eight-Bit - 3/3/2007 8:34 AM

Let me speak in their defense, however, as following a situation quickly and clearly with a group like that and everyone acting in their own direction is very difficult.

With ONE leader (and others not trying to take over)...it is not that difficult.

OldBear · « **Reply #12 on:** March 03, 2007, 11:57:59 am »

Last night was the first time I have ever had the opportunity to be involved in a quest. I think Mr. Bones did a great job with it and the number of folk involved. Yes the party itself was a bit chaotic. On the other hand you had multiple characters who are well thougth out, well played and have what I would call strong personalities. Type A's. I presume that happens a lot with a group of independant adventurers. I was one who went someplace on a suggestion, died and missed a lot of the rp as a result. I have no one to blame but myself. However, the idea was sound and seemed good at the time. I also mistakenly thought Jin had oked the idea of an invisible attack on the archers. I later reread my log and decided he was talking to someone else. That is an anticipated problem with that many people. Everyone wants to rp and talk and sorting out the conversations can be very difficult.

Still, in my opinion by the end before the crash, we had worked things out and the group was moving forward. Without the crash, who can say what the results would have been. Regardless, I had a lot of fun with it, which is the primary idea anyway.

I want to thank the more advanced players for their aid in the quest, there patience and leadership. And once more THANK YOU TO MR. BONES!!!!!

twidget658 · « **Reply #13 on:** March 03, 2007, 12:25:50 pm »

If the trainer always leads, how will the trainee ever step up?

Lesson, demostrate, trainee performs.

Once a person has reached a proficiency, it is time to help the trainee move up. The older more experience should supply guidence, suggestions and wisdom, but the trainee should take the ball and run.

Stephen_Zuckerman · « **Reply #14 on:** March 03, 2007, 03:14:35 pm »

I have to say that I'm a little resentful of those who start complaining about leadership, from time to time.

Plans were made, and the party tried following them, but a select few decided those plans weren't good enough, and went about destroying well-laid plans and better-laid bombs.

It's really hard, leading. I don't like to do it, Pyyran doesn't like to do it, and we're both much happier if someone else takes over. Why? Because then we're not responsible when things go wrong. However, when in a group that totally lacks direction, there's nothing else for it but to take the reins of a charging horse.

Certain characters, Kutya'l in particular, were ignored. This was because Pyyran, Jin, AND Rhynn (not to mention the DM-possessed NPC) decided that trying to parley with angry, hungry orcs was a bad idea. I applaud you for leaving as a result of your not fitting in; it was the best choice, following the RP. It would have been a lot easier with more healing and spellcasting power along, but the RP came first. And that's a Good Thing.

In the past, when I've led and people have complained, I've stood back to let others lead. And I've watched it fall apart horribly. I don't like watching things fall apart. Characters lose Soul Strands that way.

All of that said, we were definitely making progress, before the crash. The leadership had coalesced between Rhynn, Pyyran, and Jin (with the most emphasis on the former and the latter), and the group was able to figure out who could do what how well. We got past the first group, made it to the gates... All to the good. We were about to enter the fortress, before... Crabash.

To sum this up... 1) Great quest. I applaud the RP throughout, and Bones' setup and handling of everything. 2) If you don't like the leadership, you lead. But not at the expense of the success of the mission.

LynnJuniper · « **Reply #15 on:** March 03, 2007, 03:23:53 pm »

To add to Pyyran's post without saying names, or pointing fingers: A main thing it took us all a while to learn is what we could do. Mr.Bones brushed upon it last night when he said "Oh there are placables there so that must be the right way" We completley overlooked how dynamic we COULD have been (Example: Swimming across the water rather than going the normal way) but once we got the NPC to push us in the right direction and tell us that we had less limits then we thought we did, we were , in my opinion doing fine (until the crash which was no one's fault)

That is all I'll say on this.

Ioskeha · « **Reply #16 on:** March 03, 2007, 05:02:24 pm »

Thanks, Stephen Zuckerman, but I wasn't talking about myself. People were ignored. Do you really expect anyone to speak up when the last time they did no one listend to them? No once did any of the three leaders turn to the group and ask anyone of they had a better idea. They heard one plan and went with it. That in itself is poor leadership. If I tried that at my job my team would quickly lose respect for me.

What really annoys me the most is when the plan didn't work. Instead of the leaders taking the blame they tried to pin it on someone else. The plan didn't work because it wasn't really clear what needed to be done. Before a plan is executed a good leader would make sure that EVERYONE knew what they should be doing.

twidget658 · « **Reply #17 on:** March 03, 2007, 05:41:34 pm »

“Plans were made, and the party tried following them, but a select few decided those plans weren't good enough, and went about destroying well-laid plans and better-laid bombs.” The best plan in the world cannot be executed if not everyone knows it. Planning is one thing, executing is the next. You said a select few decided it wasn’t good enough. That is jumping the gun a little too fast. I would have to say that those are the players that didn’t know the plan. There was a breakdown there, no doubt, but why? Dissention? Probably not. Everyone wants to succeed. I would have to say that it was the communications. Three people taking and discussing different things. That is great! But you cannot simply assume that the rest of the party knows exactly what the three came up with. A flag is thrown on the football field. Everyone and their mother knows it is a late hit. What do the refs do? They all get together and ensure that was in fact what the penalty is. “However, when in a group that totally lacks direction, there's nothing else for it but to take the reins of a charging horse.” Who was leading from the start? The group would only lack direction if the leader failed to explain the direction. OR, someone didn’t like the direction and tried to take the group over. Jin was dispatching the scouts. When the scout came back, the plan had already been made and the reports from the scouts were lost. “2) If you don't like the leadership, you lead. But not at the expense of the success of the mission.” The leadership should not really be involved in the intel gathering. They should hold back, gather ALL intel, make a decision and a plan, and then communicate the plan to everyone. Then the group should roger up to the plan and then the plan is executed. I have had some RL experience with leading. Just a bit. The easiest way to success is communications. The fastest way to failure…the lack of communications.
How about a little spin on your logic? If you don't like the leading, aid the leader. Why take over? It only confuses people because they are not sure who to listen to. “We completley overlooked how dynamic we COULD have been (Example: Swimming across the water rather than going the normal way) but once we got the NPC to push us in the right direction and tell us that we had less limits then we thought we did, we were , in my opinion doing fine (until the crash which was no one's fault)” I have to agree with you there, LynnJuniper. The barricades were blow up for what reason? They were passable and we could have used them for our own advantage as well. But a ranger that is out scouting can’t just yell back in party chat saying, “No don’t!” As far as Rodlin leaving…his duty and purpose is to scout. That is his life. If the party does not need a scout, then his skills are not needed. He has also left guilds due to the lack of leadership. Why would this be any different? He is not a leader because he doesn’t like groups in the first place. That is him IC. For him to lead would be OOC. Could he lead? Sure. But he won’t. He will even help the leader. But the leader has to listen first. The way to improvement is to accept comments and criticism. If you were told just the good comments, then how do you expect to improve? You have to take the good with the bad. Improve on the negative comments and continue doing the positive comments.
Now people can take these comments and use them constructively or not. I am just throwing out what I saw and and some possible solutions. A comment in my signature says it all, "You keep doing what you have been doing, you are going to keep getting what you have been getting."

stragen · « **Reply #18 on:** March 03, 2007, 06:41:42 pm »

Dear All,

Thankyou for your comments and feedback. I take your feedback seriously, and if one of my characters is ever in the position of leader again I will try to do a better job.

I understand that some of you were not having fun either because you 1) didn't know what was going on or 2) had great ideas that appeared to be ignored. If this happened to you then it was my character's (and players) fault.

Both of these problem were because of a lack of communication. Mostly this was due to the large size of the group, with reams of chat, and many things being discussed at once. Another reason was due to the disparity of the group of characters, each with their own in character and goals. If these series continues, with the same characters each week, then you will see the group become coherent and organised.

For those who wish to continue with this series, Jin Lun Lee will be avaliable for a pre-quest meeting in Dalanthar, starting 45min before the next session, to organise the group and elect leadership roles.

Happy Roleplaying

Stragen (Jin Lun Lee)

Talan Va'lash · « **Reply #19 on:** March 03, 2007, 08:16:33 pm »

Quote

Ioskeha - 3/3/2007 11:31 AM

This is way I left. The so called "leaders" wern't listening to anything anyone was saying but a select few. I would have left the quest a lot sooner then my PC did, but I didn't have a good enough role-playing reason to. There were a few times I just went AFK during the quest, because I knew that it didn't matter if I knew what was going on or not. My PC would just be ignored.

Thats how the chain of command works!