Pickpocketing.

I consider it the most missed deviation persistant worlds usualy take in their ruleset when they omit pickpocketing completely. It is understandable considering how silly NWN handles the skill, luckily there are many pickpocketing scripts out there that make it workable. I suggest looking into some of them because thief type characters can add a lot of roleplaying value to any persistant worlds. In fact some of my most fun roleplaying moments come from playing a thief.

Well I guess I have to be registered to edit   .

Anyways what do you players think of introducing pickpocketing on a more reasonable level? Lets say one of those systems where is checks agaisnt your spot skill and level and only pick pockets items under 2 pounds or gold.

[Sakura]

We do not allow Pickpocketing on this server.

http://www.layonaraonline.com/player_info/server_rules.asp

Quote from page

Griefing is the act of intentionally causing another player emotional harm by a verbal assault. It is also the act of intentionally causing players to not be able to have fun in the world (following them and being a nuisance, blocking doorways, pick pocketing/stealing, kill stealing when asked not to, camping when asked to leave an area, being rude and obnoxious etc.) Doing so will get you a warning and a three day ban on the first occurrence. The second occurrence will get you a seven-day ban and the third will get you banned from the server.

This includes NPC's.

Sakura

[ZeroVega]

Well some/most of the most valuable items on Layo are under 2lbs... I honestly don't think that items should be able to be pick pocketed at all. Though it may add for realism, it would really stink to have my character craft an 8th Circle scroll, only to have someone 5 levels lower who can't even scribe pluck it outta my pocket. Also, if I found out someone did that... I or rather my character, would be inclined to fling a few fingers of death their way... and the only reason he'd choose death magic over a nice Hold Person and Barage of Fireballs, would be to preserve his scroll.

I know that. I was just suggesting that if the creator of this PW did not wish to keep it due to the NWN ruleset limitations that there are other options available and seeing if any players would like to see such option implimented.

[orth]

It's pretty simple.  Without the ability for repurcussion (read Implosion) due to our PvP rules, Pickpocketing doesn't fit into the mix.

ZeroVega - 6/20/2005  6:07 PM    Well some/most of the most valuable items on Layo are under 2lbs... I honestly don't think that items should be able to be pick pocketed at all. Though it may add for realism, it would really stink to have my character craft an 8th Circle scroll, only to have someone 5 levels lower who can't even scribe pluck it outta my pocket. Also, if I found out someone did that... I or rather my character, would be inclined to fling a few fingers of death their way... and the only reason he'd choose death magic over a nice Hold Person and Barage of Fireballs, would be to preserve his scroll.

 Well with the system I have in mind it would be nigh impossible for the hopeful theif to pickpcket someone 5 levels above them.

Good point.

[Killizzal]

I completely agree with remee on this part. My fist character I wanted was Sagriam Hill, a halfling thief and was highly disappointed tha i could not play him on this server. It is only real and rewarding to play a thief. You know, if you can get away with it than that is from the high abilities and training. Breaking into houses should be allowed in the case that you can do it without being seen (stealth) and pick the lock. If the DM's wantedt his prevented they can add a higher DC to things. As for thievry being griefing, i also think that is kinda dumb. Im not tryin to get anyone on my bad side and i love the server but if the RPers are so hardcore, they will realize that it is not the player griefing, but the PC doing what he is meant to do. Between the skill and RP of the character, it should be allowed. Now, on the other hand though: If you have a server full of Non_RPing idiots who cant follow the rules and decide to rob a bank with 50 people in it and "some how" get away with it...Thats moronic. Thives dont go to the bank at 12 noon. So, I think, if RPed correctly, that it should be allowed and yes remmy, your right, it would add greatly to the experiance of a persistant world.

Killizzal

[Dalbarhedi]

The main problem is that pickpocketing hurts other players, which is why it is usually banned. I mean, it would be one thing if you could only steal gold, because that can generally be earned again with little trouble, but there are still those it would hurt. For instance, a 5th level character generally has almost no money, and it takes time to get more. Even losing a paltry 200gp is painful and will require a fair amount of work to re-claim.

Also, as noted, with no PvP at all, there is no way for a character to redress grievances if a thief were to be caught. Not to mention that pick pocketing is, in effect, another form of PvP.

[Dorganath]

The pickpocket rules, along with the others (griefing, PvP, etc.), are in place for a reason.  If they are not to your liking, then there are other options out there that might fit the bill.  There are plenty of other things that rogues can do besides pick the pockets of people who may have worked very hard for the few trinkets and bits of gold in their pockets.

[Chuckles_McChuck]

but stealing from a character provokes an act of PvP, I can assure you like ZeroVegas character my character would react to your theivery in a very unholy manner, by first hold person then dominate person, telling him that once the hold spell wears off he will run around streaking the town he is in.  Only to then dissapear from the world locked up in her basement with electrically enchanted bars being tortured day after day until she finally gets bored and does him in for good.  Okay maybe not exactly that, but pretty close, but I'm not allowed to do PvP actions of any type unless it is DM supervised and approved.  So theiving should be done in the same manner, you can easily have your character go to his pickpocketting skills on DM run quests as long as you let the DM know first what you intend to do and why.  Also CDQ's can very well be used to test your theives skill.

[Parreyon]

It is interesting to me to see the people who defend pick pocketing by saying it's rewarding are the people who play theives and pick pocket. Coming from the other end of the spectrum, I hate the idea of pick pocketing because the last thing I want after an 8 hour quest i've been RPing and finally finished has to be done all over again because some thief is out there stealing everyone's stuff. There is no promotion of fun in this concept and has led many people to leave servers that allow pvp pick pocketing ... especially in an all 'good' setting.

[twidget658]

Pickpocketing may be fun for the player doing the pickpocketing, but almost definitely not to the people that gets the item(s) stolen from. It is like a bad joke that is aimed at a certain person. The joke may be funny to one or some but not to the person that it is about or the friends of that person.

I agree with and really like the rule for no pickpocketing. I personnally would like to see it remain.

[Killizzal]

Without a doubt, the rule im sure will not change. I dont say that it is good one way or the other. My primary point being that if it is RP and allowed by the 0's and 1's of the game then it should be allowed. In real life is there pickpocketing and house theft, murder and dueling? Yes, these are things that happen in our favorite books and movies about dungeon and dragons. I can see trying to keep everyone happy which is why my fuss does not keep me away from a non PvP server. But hte fina fact is that RP is roleplaying and is meant to be as real as possible and in as real a world as possible. Does anyone see what I mean? Another thing I'd like to address is the people out there who seem to think that these humans, elves, and dwarves can run forever. Ever heard of stamina? Another fine RP fact. Sleeping in the streets....Logging off out in the middle of nowhere...talking directly to someone you cannot see (in party chat)...Granted these things may not be, per say, "fun" to everyone, but to those RPer's out there who are in it to RP(a.k.a. me) this is a little irratating when you have a party run ahead of you and they or you die because of the lack of order or stability in a group.

Anyone reading this: Do not take this as a sign that I dont like this server. It is a wonderful place, I love the people(yeah, you all) and the Work put in bu the DM's is astounding.

Killizzal

[Dorganath]

If you're talking about realism, then also note that in real life, pickpocketing is illegal and is subject to legal action.  How much fun would your rogue have being in prison, unable to pick anyone's pocket? If we're going to make it as real as possible, we can't just be selective about what parts of reality we include.

[KageKeeper]

Another really big issue is, like properly playing evil, many players cannot handle it either way.

Either the rogue goes over board and does it too much, or the victim gets upset cause he lost an item, and then the rogue is yelling, "But you never saw it cause I made my rolls!" The victim swears they did and then things deteriorate from there.

I have seen it on another server and I for one do not want to see it here. Pickpocketing amongst mature RPers, unless with DM supervision, is just not necessary. Just like PKing or PvP.

Note this is my opinion and only my opinion.

[steverimmer]

Actaully pickpocketing is allowed, just not on Player Characters or NPC's or 'Bosses'.  In other words you can go out and pickpocket any hostile monster as long as its not a boss.  However...the DC's are so high you've only got a good chance of succeeding if you're a high level  Plus of course pickpocketing can be used on quests under GM supervision.  So its not a totally wasted skill

[Killizzal]

Dorganath - 6/21/2005  2:05 AM

If you're talking about realism, then also note that in real life, pickpocketing is illegal and is subject to legal action.  How much fun would your rogue have being in prison, unable to pick anyone's pocket? If we're going to make it as real as possible, we can't just be selective about what parts of reality we include.

Precisely, That is my point. Put in an active gaurd system with bounties, etc... There should be a court system on the server and all that. In my opinion, there should be major governmant, religious, and rebelious sway in the server to make it a proper persistant world. The world we play in right now, on the PvP side, is utopian. You cant even get mad IC and insult them. I think dueling IC with proper RP is nesessary and warranted, because maybe there is a problem that is not to be solved with words.    

As far as what Steverimmer said, the point in pickpocketing a monster that you can kill is what? ...Stupid waist of skill points and the result of to much gaming and not enough thinking. Why would a thief pick the pocket of a known mass murder? Uhh? He wouldnt. So, that is not even a valid point of pickpocketing being legal. Just kill em and take it.  Now, if you can establish a good RP thief, now thats interesting world turning stuff. Personally, my thief was known by everybody as a scout and became one of the richest, most well known merchants on a previous server....and i chaotic neutraled him to the tee. My point is that it is something the would be around in a persistant world and player should be given the chance to do it if they can. Watch em, Make sure there doin it right.Like KageKiller said, if you get one that is off the wall, then make em change. If you can have someone change over the wrong alignment, that is easy.

Now, my opinion on the law enforcement behing theivery. If caught, yes, a bounty should and would be put on your head by ANY and ALL law enforcement and if caught in the act, players should be able to use their own disgretion. Jail time or the possible "permanent jailing(character is null en void)" is a definate and a DM hosted trail would be GREAT! I personally love to RP things that really matter and are going to do something in a world where everyone gets along. Layonara is a place where everyone is merry with everyone. Dwarves love humans and elves. Elves love dwarves. Drow are tolerated, as are monsters in town(i.e. Klugger*huge giant thing). This is ot real people. I have tried to impliment this in the game and it dosent work. Nobody understands that they hate a giant in Sielwood but love them in town. Hate a drow in the Underdark and love them in the city. Clerics help monsters. Clerics help evil people. Druids help animal killers. There is not supposed to be perfect unity in this world. It should be hard to walk up, as a dwarf, to an elf and convince them to go to a dangerous place with you and possibly risk their life to help. Instead, I walk up and say, "'ey would any o' yous like to be goin wit me out of town en to da Sielwood?" and ive got ninety replys form people that should hate either bacuase of God, Alignment, Race, or Etc... I dont mind whether or not we have thives or not but i think some of the people on this great server could really improve on their RP skills.

By the way: A SHOUT TO GAME DM'S: WATCH FOR RP MORE IN HLINT. IT HAPPENS A LOT. IVE BEEN RPING FOR TWO DAYS FOR XP AND IVE GOTTEN NONE. HOW DO YOU EXPECT TO DISCOURAGE POWERLEVELING IF YOUR NOT THERE TO GOVE THE XP. THE ONLY ONE IVE GOTTEN XP FORM FOR RPING IS LENTHAR AND THAT WAS FOR JUST SOME LITTLE CONVERSATION WITH SOMEONE I WASNT EVEN THINKING ABOUT.

If one of you DM's wants to make that a seperate thread, go ahead cuz ill talk about that to.

Sorry for any thing that may go against what you guys are saying but im ranting.

Kiliizzal

[steverimmer]

As far as what Steverimmer said, the point in pickpocketing a monster that you can kill is what? ...Stupid waist of skill points and the result of to much gaming and not enough thinking. Why would a thief pick the pocket of a known mass murder? Uhh? He wouldnt. So, that is not even a valid point of pickpocketing being legal. Just kill em and take it.

Hmm the point is in this world if you're a pure rogue you probably won't be able to kill most monsters with substantial help from others anyway, and besides as I said it can be allowed with DM supervision, although only for RP purposes and thats needs both players to agree to it.  But if you're asking for a thief to go around pickpocketing PC's without their knowledge or permission well that is definately not allowed.