Player Routines.

[Stephen_Zuckerman]

Er... Should this be right? I was just DA'd by a Ghoul in the Hlint Crypts - he used something called "Star Dust of Corath."  If I'm right, a Ghoul is not CR 10, and thusly has no business using Star Dusts.  [small]Especially not when they kill me instantly.[/small]  NOTE: I ran into Orth a moment ago in the chats, and he thought I was more upset about this whole thing than I was...  Just want to apologize here in public for upsetting him with my complaints. The Star Dusts are nifty; I just was a little unsettled about my "routine" being wrong.  [21:12]  we players get into routines [21:13]  eg. run from hlint to lleilon. safe. [21:13]  if suddenly that racoon is rabid and leaps down on us, we cry foul [21:15]  but we all do it... your first trip through an area you're super cautious, scouting, stealthing, checking CRs [21:15]  20th time you're running along the left edge until 3/4 the way up then quick dash to the middle then straight out  That's absolutely true.

[vasopressin]

The Lesser Darksoul down there seems to have learned some new tricks too.

[Stephen_Zuckerman]

Well, things are going to be more interesting, then.

Which, now that I actually open my eyes, is pretty nifty.

[Talan Va'lash]

Kill it quickly before it uses it!  that way you can horde its pretty star dust!

[Blackguy]

Ye the star dust of Corath is imba. Its a level 9 slay living spell. Love those new stardust.

[Nibor21]

Does this means that the newbies who need the Hlint crypts for experience rather than those who use it as a quick safe way of making money are going to be in real trouble?

[Stephen_Zuckerman]

Occasionally. It also means that often enough, the people who use it as a "quick, safe way of making money" (like myself) are going to have to be much more careful from now on.

[Blackguy]

Let me just make a statement here, nothing is "quick and easy" in this world. I dont like seeing people who simply accepts that on this and that corner lies a badger, and on this and that corner lies a skeleton that does the same ol, same ol.
  Its a living breathing world, and as such you cannot be entitled to mock over that everything is not how you left it. Patches are just a good way to have the builders make some randomness to places, and spice encounters up a bit. So everytime you make your "rountine" you should be surprised.

[Stranzini]

This is fine and true, but the people that the Hlint crypts are really for are the beginning players at like level one or two.

Making life more spicy for higher level players who have been taking advantage of that place when they needed pocket change is fine, and at that point all the comments about routines are valid. But I think the area should be designed to give a good experience to who its meant for. Anything else, like whacking people who aren't really meant to be using it, should come second.

I don't know if it is or is not the case, but maybe the ghouls wielding this new stuff could only be spawned when the levels of the players visiting merit it?

[Olme]

Well the world changes but it doesn't.  So today it is some stardust...

Many months ago my, just turned level 4 character was called by the Soulmother when, in the crypts of Hlint, he was instantly incinerated by a firebomb thrown by a skeleton.

Angry Balor princes, Drow assassins and other nefarious powerful creatures have on occasion ventured into Hlint.

To be complacent is to dance with the Soulmother.

There are no guarantees, nor should there be.

This is the way it should be.

[Dorganath]

You know, when things like this occur, we do listen and we do try to address them.  Things that are woefully wrong will be adjusted.  The loot drops have been changed now so that the skeletons shouldn't get those items or be able to use them.
  And as others have said...the world changes. It happens. Learn to live with it, because it's part of life and the continuing evolution of this game world.

[crazedgoblin]

it still kills its ghoul friends with its ice blast heheh

[Delta7]

I understand that we need to stay vigilent and not get stuck in a simple routine. And there should be no quick and easy. And that things should still be challenging for higher level players. This all makes perfect sense and is what makes Layo so nice. However at the same time please consider this: Regardless of how cautious you are, a skeleton throwing a firebomb that does 80 points of damage instantly or using stardust that slays instantly etc is also not very realistic and seems unfair to players. It's unavoidable. There is no way for a player to avoid that other than not going there to begin with. If the death system was not so strict, than that randomness would be somewhat more acceptable. However, with the threat of a perma death, some fairness must be observed.

I think it's great you guys adjusted it so that low CR monsters don't have such deadly possibilities.

Sincerly

[Dorganath]

Ok...*sighs*
  We added 128 new and nifty items to the game in the recent update.  We distributed these items across the loot drop tables based on initial thoughts on their appropriate placement.  Once the update went live we learned that some were being dropped in creatures that were too easy for the rewards they gave.  We also learned that a few items were unbalanced and needed to be adjusted.  Now, less than 3 days after that fairly significant update, which represents uncounted hours of volunteer work from the Project Team and the GM Team, we have things adjusted and updated to be more appropriate.
  We do not just put insanely deadly items onto low-CR skeletons just to see how you all will react. We consider the impact of every single item and creatre that goes into this world very carefully...and then once they're in, we tend to reconsider them as we see how they play out in practice.
  The loot system is random and based on a category of items that goes by creature CR.  A few of the stronger dusts were put into the low-end drops when they should have been into the next drop up.  This was an oversight and an honest mistake.  No malice was involved at all.
  I'm sorry if I may sound a bit gruff here, but to imply that we don't consider these things or we're not focused on what is "fair" is really quite frustrating to the Project Team and the GM Team. We are always trying to do the best job we can with the community's best interests first in our minds.  
  And we do this as volunteers...in what remains of our spare time.  
  While we would love to produce absolutely flawless patches and updates, it just doesn't work that way. I'm sorry that you feel we're not being "fair" or "considerate". Nothing could be farther from the truth.

[iceyfire]

Heh, To true Dorganath, a lot of the time people can lose perspective that we are not all perfect in what we do.
Rest assured every change and addition is welcomed, i was suprised and happy with the update, but balancing of such things is an endless process.
When coding say script a it can have adverse affects on script c or d, most of the time one will never notice them, so in reality its all about play testing till it is sorted.
Im sure you all know that, but thank you all for your hardwork.

*Grins* Sab is a lucky Wizard she is at 15 now without a single DT, running and cowering in a corner is a skill not to be mocked for it is useful!.

[Pibemanden]

I think that all changes to areas are wellcome as long as there is a RP or balance reason. Storold has been killed a couple of times because he was running in places that I OOC knew where 'safe' and without spawns but suddenly something new pops up and kills him because he's unbuffed. I really like this because it makes the world seem alive and a little more 'real', like varius creatures making abushes and stuff.

[Stephen_Zuckerman]

I definately think I agree with those that say "Neato" about the changes - one of the reasons I haven't been playing Layo as much is because oftentimes, when I couldn't find a party that I could join, I got bored putting the undead to rest, gathering berries, and mixing magical cool-aid. (Sorry, I just wanted to use that line one more time. :-> ) But really... I just lost sight of what Layo is about. RP and character development. And you don't need to party up to go bash big baddies, or sit around talking to everyone to do that. Training, exploring... Adventuring!

And it's just not High Adventure if there aren't a few surprises along the way.

On a more rational point, though, I do want to try and make it clear that I don't think anyone felt like the powerful new item drops were some kind of personal attack. It's just the law of equilibrium. When a change is made to a system in equilibrium, equilibrium shifts to oppose that change until a new equilibrium is reached. Applies just as well to sociology as chemistry.

[Weeblie]

I really, really like the new drops! Gives you the "Oh! I found something new!"-feeling again! Great!

iceyfire - 5/4/2006  5:33 PM

*Grins* Sab is a lucky Wizard she is at 15 now without a single DT...

Uh... Don't challenge the fate...

[Force_of_Will_]

I think all the skeletons and badgers should be able to cast Evard's Black tenticles.

I love the new Drops.

[orth]

iceyfire - 5/4/2006  11:33 AM
*Grins* Sab is a lucky Wizard she is at 15 now without a single DT, running and cowering in a corner is a skill not to be mocked for it is useful!.

Heh it helps also that the soul mother wasn't around for what level 6-14?