Questions about duelists

[Frelinder]

Hi i have a few questions about duelists

1. In the handbook it says that duelists are pretty common among all races (exept half-orc duelist). How about if a halfling become a duelist, can he get the feat precise strike? In Lore it says offhand must be free and a rapier is considered a large weapon for a halfling...

"
Precise strike:
Type of Feat: Class
Prerequisite: Duelist 2

Specifics: The character gains extra piercing damage when wielding a light piercing weapon. +1d6 at 2nd level, +2d6 at 6th level.

Use: Automatic when wielding a light melee piercing weapon. This only functions when the offhand is free and with melee weapons. It does not function with Layonara Custom Weapons.
 "

2. How does the duelists bonus AC from intelligens work? is it the same as an monks Wis bonus AC? And by that its an AC that can't be negotiated(dropped if caught flat footed)??

3. I know that monks are verry restricted when it comes due to multiclassing. In the handbook it says that Monks often becomes duelists and a very good one due to the fact they also don't wear armor. Monk and a rogue splitt is a big nono as I understand. But how about monk/duelist? (I'm aware of that when leaving the monk its no returning back to monk)

4. If a halfling can't use a rapier as a duelist due to its a large weapon for him, can he instead pick the rapier feat(just so he can get the requirements for taking duelist lvls) but wield another light weapon such shortsword or Kama? (it says in lore it only function whith a piercing weapon)

5. double checking: Sneak attack and precise strike stack right? and the precise strike damage owerwrite the enchantment damage bonus on the sword.. right?

6. How important is the feat uncanny dodge for an dex fighter? I mean monk don't have it but they don't seem to suffer from that...


Happy for answers

[Eight-Bit]

You don't need to use a rapier to be a duelist as far as I know, but the rapier feats are required. Any piercing weapon should be adequate. Your Intelligence is added to your armor class in the flavor of Dodge AC in the amount of your intelligence bonus.

A Monk/Rogue is not a "no-no" as far as I know. It's a powerful build. However, a monk duelist seems like a silly idea to me. A monk can deal up to 120 damage every six seconds without factoring strength or additional damage. A monk's ability scores are stretched so thin as it is that adding more to intelligence would result in a loss in other fields. Not to mention that a Monk gets a lot of nifty feats later in their life.

A Halfling can use a rapier, however, you are correct that the feat is required. A dagger or shortsword will work just as fine. I think Kama are slashing, though. The weapon has to be piercing for the feats to take into effect.

Sneak attack and precise strike should stack. The extra damage from precise will overwrite any additional piercing damage the weapons may have applied to them, however I think elemental damage should be unaffected.

Uncanny Dodge is a VERY important feat for anyone with dexterity to have. It allows you to keep your dex bonus while being flanked (attacked by an invisible/sneaking enemy, attacked while engaged in combat, or otherwise flat-footed). It should also prevent the +2 bonus to enemy attack rolls for flanking.

Hey, most of this is off the top of my head. Please forgive any mistakes or errors.

[ShiffDrgnhrt]

Hey, be a fighter Duelist Weapon Master (Rapier) Hehehe... Talk about Ultimate Fighter
 
 You'd get all the Weapon Focus/Specializations, Anything from KD to Expertise to Imp Crit etc figther Feats, You could still build him like a Rogue Stat Wise since they still get low Will and higher Fort and Relfex, You'd get the better Crits and such from WM, and all the Nifty Damage Feats from Duelist. AND! Its a completely Plausible Build, since a Fencer is essentially a Master of the Rapier and a Duelist...
 
 The best part about this thougfh is you can forgo Dex in favor of the Heavy Armors, and put those points into Int for more AC (since you need 13 Int and Dex for WM, if you start with 14/14 thats an extra +2/+2 from each towards AC).  Then just Use Chainmail Armor which makes use of the +2 Dex Bonus and Vuala!  Fighter, Duelist, Weapon Master!  OOnly issue is you need more levels of Duelist to be good then WM, so you might wanna make a 6 Fighter/ 7 (Duelist/WM)/7 (WM/Duelist) or Vice Versa before going back to Duelist...

[Falonthas]

*tosses out his next idea since shiff gave it away*

[akata]

just adding to Eight-Bit since he covered most of it

precise strike work with all light piercing Melee weapons, so dagger and shortsword as well.

ac bonus from int is dodge, being flat-footed means you lose that bonus
dodge bonus by the way cap at +20

sneak attack and precise strike stack no doubt about that. and elemental damage and racial damage works (fire acid, the damage from silver and titanium etc ect.) what dont work is a weapons base enchantment and gwm as they both add piercing and that dont stack

[Crunch]

So how does the weapon enhancement / gmw work with precise strike against DR.  e.g.  If a golem has DR of 30/+5, will precise strike of +6 allow a copper rapier to overcome that DR or do you still need gmw from a 25th + level caster to overcome the DR?

[akata]

So how does the weapon enhancement / gmw work with precise strike against DR.  e.g.  If a golem has DR of 30/+5, will precise strike of +6 allow a copper rapier to overcome that DR or do you still need gmw from a 25th + level caster to overcome the DR?

precise strike is damage and damage only, it helps on DR by allowing you to damage more, when I say that gmw dont work with precise strike then I mean the damage from the spell only

gmw (and base enchantment) still gives a duelist + to ab and helps on DR
a duelist with a gmw from a lvl 25 caster have a +5 rapier meaning +5 on ab but instead of +5 to damage, you have +2d6

hope that clears it up

[akata]

Hey, be a fighter Duelist Weapon Master (Rapier) Hehehe... Talk about Ultimate Fighter
 
 You'd get all the Weapon Focus/Specializations, Anything from KD to Expertise to Imp Crit etc figther Feats, You could still build him like a Rogue Stat Wise since they still get low Will and higher Fort and Relfex, You'd get the better Crits and such from WM, and all the Nifty Damage Feats from Duelist. AND! Its a completely Plausible Build, since a Fencer is essentially a Master of the Rapier and a Duelist...
 
 The best part about this thougfh is you can forgo Dex in favor of the Heavy Armors, and put those points into Int for more AC (since you need 13 Int and Dex for WM, if you start with 14/14 thats an extra +2/+2 from each towards AC).  Then just Use Chainmail Armor which makes use of the +2 Dex Bonus and Vuala!  Fighter, Duelist, Weapon Master!  OOnly issue is you need more levels of Duelist to be good then WM, so you might wanna make a 6 Fighter/ 7 (Duelist/WM)/7 (WM/Duelist) or Vice Versa before going back to Duelist...

duelist cant wear any armor at all, without loosing their special abilities

[ShiffDrgnhrt]

Really?  *shrugs*  I still think the build would work well, just gotta find some Platty Lined clothes

[Eight-Bit]

Really?  *shrugs*  I still think the build would work well, just gotta find some Platty Lined clothes

Platty is for ninnies. Use Adamantium.

[ShiffDrgnhrt]

Oh what ever...  Mithril is King...  But that really isnt the point I was trying to make with my Build IDea.

[Crunch]

Are you allowed to take two prestige classes?  I thought that was implicitly if not explicitly forbidden.

[ShiffDrgnhrt]

*shrugs*  It might depend on the PrC you took first.

[Chongo]

I tested a duelist/wm a while back, with osx I think, that had 83 AC and consistent 120-140 crits (think that was at level 25ish).  And everything else like saves, skills, survivability etc to boot!
 
 
 
 You know, when you think about those two classes they really do go hand in hand.  And the character approvers do make a fantastic point of looking at the character instead of the build.  But, while there is no hard and fast rule that I've seen regarding two PrCs, this one is stupidly powerful and I would be surprised if someone's face didn't twitch while reviewing it.  That said, I'm not on the approval board so you'd have to talk to one of them to get the real skinny on it.
 
 Monk/ duelists... two hander rapier duelists... dunno, I start thinking about kaze no kama or the dancing flame from NWN2 munckins.  Do a search, you'll gasp.
 
 It's all about the character with folks like Darkstorme or Acacea at the reigns for character approval, and I have a lot of faith in how folks like these regard an initial submission, and even moreso in the determination of contributing playstyle that goes on afterwards when the rubber meets the road.  So the big thing is... pursue the character first and pursue it well.  Everything always seems to click after that.

[miltonyorkcastle]

.... the one failing of the immensly powerful dualist/WM..... the will save..... as it happens, it's the same weakness amongst all fighter-types.

In walks the 25th level dualist/WM. Following behind is the invisible 11th level wizard. The Wizard casts hold monster. The Wizard wins.

For you see, my dear power-building friends, this is a relatively low magic world where you will probably not get your hands on an item that gives you immunity to mind-affecting spells. And worse, since multiclassing adds the saves from each class, you'll have an amazing reflex save as a dualist/wm, but your will save will be so pitifully low that unless you get some item to boost it, or a mage to ward you, mind-attacks will... how do they say it... own you.

Yes, that's right. That's why all you fighters out there should hate magic. Hate it, I tell you.

[Chongo]

Will what?
 
 O.o
 
 Wait... there's a will saving throw?
 
 I always wondered what the end to that sentence was... "Will 3 what?".

[Frelinder]

Hehe.. thanks for all the answers. I already have a damage build whith Boon that have low will and can make alot of damage. So getting in WM in the picture its not what I have in mind.

We have a few duelists here and they all are, or will be rogue splitts. I was thinking of an idea of making a duelist whithout the flanking sneak attacks and try to make up a build that don't already exists. In my mind he is the ultimate dex-tank. so fast and whith high AC that he are almost untouchable.. but he will not be able to do alot of damage.

I was thinking of monk/duelist 10/10 splitt for his speed and nice saves. Though a monks progression from lvl 10 to 20 is verry nice and a plain monk 20 would in many ways be better.

I don't wanna have a build that is common. A dual wielding(shortsword) halfling fighter/rogue/duelist- 5/5/10 Is something that come in mind. though wasting a feat on rapier focus and don't be able to use rapier which is an exellent weapon whith very high crit range is a bummer.

The charactare I have in mind is not a sneaky one in dark clothes that flanks. its a halfling in bright colars, tanking and hitting them upfront and saying..- "hey try to catch me if you can" *dodges and laughs*

Or an Elwen (also in bright colars) More humble then the halfling and more sofisticated but same fearless aproach. facing and no sneaky flanking..

Oh and no need to comment that it doesn't matter if the build is common or not.. i know there is the character that its important whether he will be unic/different or not. A plain fighter can be very unic and fun to play

Ultimate build though whith duelist would be rogue/duelist/wizard- or fighter/duelist/wizard whith 21 lvls in wizard and 11 in duelist.

Think of an duelist that have epic mage armor, greater stoneskin and so forth.. since both need high Int there should be a perfect combo. I'm not wanna play a spellsinger atm though

[akata]

why not try a bard/duelist then?, and as for your duel wielding halfing then there isn't a lot of sense in adding duelist to that, you'll lose the special abilities you get from it

[Frelinder]

yea I know.. Was thinking dual for more attacks and the great benefit from duelist is the AC bonus and that he would still have.

a bard i wouldn't be able to RP the right way and putting points in wis and Cha makes him weaker in other areas...

naa.. no magic.. If I wanna have a halfling duelist I'm almost forced to take fighter lvls though to get all the feats he needs.. *scratching his head... crunching the numbers and takes it from the beginning again* Hmmm...

[Eight-Bit]

Oh what ever...  Mithril is King...  But that really isnt the point I was trying to make with my Build IDea.

Ninny!

Just sayin', good gourd.