Emeralds

[ZeroVega]

Harlas Ravelkione - 5/18/2005 9:40 AM Forget my bid lad. The amount of coin and equipment wanted for an emerald has gone beyond anything that would be reasonable, and I am not contributing to raising it even further. Kobal Bluntaxe

    I saw this after I made my post in another emerald selling thread, and I have to say I lept for joy after reading this. It seems diamonds have a steady price at 10'000 gold and then negotiation depending on what it's worth to the buyer/seller; however emeralds are quite insane.
    I remember when 40'000 gold for one of these babies was incredible (as in a lot to pay) then we had the first emerald auction. Uh oh I said to myself and sure enough my fear came true. The richest characters on the server, some of the only ones who could actually use anything made from an emerald, and the ones who were willing to fork out the most for one started the bidding... 80'000, 90'000, all the way up to 150'000 (if I remember correctly). Now you see, the auction ended and the guy who found this emerald and probably only knew it was a rare gem, just became filthy rich, and the high level characters who bought it, just set a new standard.
    Lets face it, there's maybe two or three gem crafters who would even dare to take a shot at making an emerald ring, and then only a handful of people who could wear it, but when you start paying 100'000 gold for a gem, somethin's not right.

[Harlas Ravelkione]

I totally agree. I had actually made up my mind to follow up the newest bid on that emerald, but then I saw your post, thought about it, and decided not to. It just ain't right.

But you cannot forbid people to auction, and play people out against eachother to raise the price. Business is business. As long as people are prepared to pay 100.000+ for emeralds, the prices will not get reasonable.

I will stay with my current jewelry until the prices get reasonable, or until I get lucky.

Harlas

[Thunder Pants]

i tend to agree, when the opening bids start at 75000 and 60000 worth of items, thats just obscene, i could see or the other (though i still think that is grossly overpriced) but both?

[vgn]

We have a market driven economy here, even if it is slightly broken at times. There evidently was a dry spell where people either were not finding emeralds or were not selling them and Zero is correct, that bidding frenzy that happened a couple months ago set a new precident for emerald pricing. I think it is too high and many people think it is too high, so market forces will drive this down.
Emeralds will always favor the seller as they are rare, but they are not as rare as the prices being thrown around seem to dictate. If the current would-be buyers do as Harlas has done and refrain from shelling out too much for them, at some point the buyers will have to drop their prices to something more reasonable.

As Zero said a diamond tends to go for around 10K, I've heard some folks wanting more because they are a little tougher to get these days, but 10K is not a bad price. With that in mind I honestly can't see a fair price for emeralds being more than 40K and I would say 30K is more reasonable.

[Trace Nightwind]

I think 50k minimum for emeralds is fair.  They are extremely rare and much more rare than diamonds which sell for 10k.  I tend to lean from 50-75k being a fair emerald price.

[Talan Va'lash]

Allright, so lets form an emereld buyers guild and say that we'll pay 60k for an emereld.  As long as we dont outbid each other, then the price will stay and eventually we can all get an emereld.

[Ar7]

I think I was the one that set the example by buying an emerald for over 150 000 gold pieces. I find that it is perfectly normal, well maybe a bit too high. Emeralds are as good as it gets on Layonara, it is the tip of the tower, doesn't get higher than that. For me, that emerald meant an additional level 9 spellslot. Was it worth it? Hell yes!

Layonara is a living evolving world, you can not order people to sell for a set price. Also you can not compare diamonds with emeralds, diamonds have deposits and a large number of people can aquire them, while emeralds have 1/144 chance while washing a mystery mineral. During 1.5 years of play I have found only 1 emerald myself, at this rate the price for these green gems will only rise, as there will be more and more high level people who will wish to buy them. This is the exact reason why the price has risen from 40 000 to over 150 000, because there are now many more adventurers who can use such jewelry and have the money to buy them.

Right now the demand for emeralds is much bigger than the amount of gems on the market, if you want the price to fall make emeralds less rare. Though I am fully against such a decision, right now the emerald is the last truly UNIQUE item on Layonara. When I obtain one it simply feels like an accomplishement.

[ZeroVega]

  Hehe, Ar7, I didn't say "sell em for less" or "demand a lower price." I'm fully aware that emeralds are VERY rare, and VERY powerful. I'm merely saying look at what's happened. When you buy an emerald for a 100'000gp and then get someone to make a ring for half that, it's a little disturbing.
    Also saying they're the last truly unique item on Layonara, is hogwash. (Mithril and Cobalt is still very hard to get, and you ever been to the ruby mine?) Yeah, it's the top of the top, as good as it gets. But I have to say, one gem is not worth as much as one of Layonara's most expensive houses (at least to me). Again, these are all my opinions, and I'm just stating it as I find it disturbing that any low level can find one, and any high level can make him a rich son of a gun by buying it for a ton of gold.
  -ZV

[Qui_Z]

The whole thing with emeralds are that they are THE best. They are pretty much the hardest to get and they will always be. If emeralds are introduced in bigger bulk, the price will go down and they won't ever be as valuable again, because rings last forever.
  Now that people are finally able to craft them almost trivially and East is open and there are more epics, it's only a matter of time untill they become much less rare.
  There needs to be something nearly impossible to get and everyone values above other items. Enjoy it while it lasts...I seem to remember going absolutely nuts for a SINGLE diamond when I was level 9-10. Now people have hordes of them.
  They are fine the way they are in my opinion, and those huge sums of money is alot of what's left from probably the few million gold that came from old overpaying pawnshops.

[Dyness]

I like the emerald guild thing. I myself am limited in the way I craft, not many people are paying for potions and my only alternative is to sell eggs which hasn't worked out so well. I drool when I have at least 10k in my bank, my god.. those prices I'll never be able to reach. Oh well, let the prices go as crazy as they need to be, clearly there are a select few that can afford em once they go past say 50k.

[ZeroVega]

Yeah Emeralds are THE best, as you said. However unless you've had a good look around East you'll see that unless you've got your big old group of Epics (like on Ar7s quest) you ain't gettin none of em.
  Diamonds are definatly harder to get, and I've only heard of one successful attempt at the diamond mine with the new spawns. (Only know one person who has "hoards")
  The gold thing is right on, and yeah Emeralds should be expensive as they are the best. And I suppose people will pay 150'000 gold for an emerald if that's what it's worth to them. Not saying they shouldn't, things just seem waaaay over priced. There, "I was the one who payed over 150'000 for an emerald." Sorry but OVER 150'000 for an emerald.
  And saying people can craft them trivially is incorrect. Most don't get past level 14-16 in gem crafting cause they only do it for other crafts. Anyway, I posted my opinions. Said I was happy to see ONE other person set a limmit and say that emeralds aren't worth that much to him either, and have said my peace.
  -ZV

[Qui_Z]

Then I guess people will need to learn that they can't always have THE BEST just because it's possible to have it. I know I have, and I've went through 5 emeralds just in V2, as well as being 5 levels over the requirement for them.
  Out of those 5 I only have one amulet.

[Talan Va'lash]

acctually, you can demand a lower price, if the buyers collectively agree not to pay over a certain price.

Similar things are done regularly in real life.  The most common of which is called a workers union.


As for diamonds... have you tried to mine any recently?  Epic parties fail at mining diamonds these days.

Also, Mithril is probably 144 times harder to get than an emereld... at least.  The reason being that its possible to get an emereld.  I doubt that mithril will be sucessfully mined before the end of the campaign.

In regards to the notion that east will make emerelds more common, I dont think there are deposits of emerelds.  If that is so, you have a better chance of finding one in the red light caves than on east.


"Fine the way they are" - I'm not proponing that something be changed about them.  And setting an OOC "limit" on their price (which it seems I've been misinterpreted as saying) is one, silly, and two, wouldnt work.

However, we, as potential buyers of emerelds, can refuse to pay over a certain price for them.  It works in the same way that a union sets minimum wages etc. for workers.  They refuse to work unless they are given their mutually agreed standard.  We could refuse to buy unless the sellers agree to our standard.

But, Unions don't work if a significant fraction of the group involved (workers, or in our case, emereld buyers) does not abide by the rules of the union.  i.e. working for less pay than union standard, or paying more for an emereld.

A union such as this would be a part of the economy, as they are parts of the real world economy.  There are many many many more factors in an economy than supply and demand.

[lonnarin]

Last I heard they were guarded in the eye sockets of some uber lich who eats epics for breakfast, whose total HD and power exceeds those of the standard tarrasque.  If somebody's willing to shell out 100-150k for a raw piece of CNR, let em.  Obviously if they thought they had any chance of getting it themselves with a well organized party, it would have happened in the past 1-2years an emerald chipper has played on the server.

Supply and demand.

Though what is REALLY funny is the gem price chart in the DMG.  It places cut, polished emeralds at around 5-12k tops.  Imagine trading a suit of iron platemail for one... heheheh

Perhaps if emeralds were made more readily available via CDQ requests, the price would significantly drop for the high end crafters.  It would be much more fun, enjoyable and profitable to a near epic character to aquire a gemstone from guile and roleplay than to simply kill 100k worth of wee beasties and fork over a huge moneybag.

[Leanthar]

"...As for diamonds... have you tried to mine any recently? Epic parties fail at mining diamonds these days..." 
  The diamond mines have not changed in a good long time.  I have personally seen a single character (almost an epic--ie not an epic) mine diamonds.  That was about a month ago but the caves (plural) have not been updated since then at all.  *shrugs*

[Talan Va'lash]

Leanthar - 5/18/2005  5:03 PM    "...As for diamonds... have you tried to mine any recently? Epic parties fail at mining diamonds these days..." 
  The diamond mines have not changed in a good long time.  I have personally seen a single character (almost an epic--ie not an epic) mine diamonds.  That was about a month ago but the caves (plural) have not been updated since then at all.  *shrugs*

 I remember when the cave(s?) were changed.    However, I'm only speaking from my experience and the stories I've heard of mining diamonds.  And I believe they were all in the same location, so perhaps my observations are slanted.

[Ar7]

Qui_Z - 5/18/2005  1:11 PM   Enjoy it while it lasts...I seem to remember going absolutely nuts for a SINGLE diamond when I was level 9-10. Now people have hordes of them.

 Amen to that, I still remember the day I got my first diamond, it was something. I remember the whole day, one of the greatest moments, I still wear that piece of jewelry. Sure beats the situation where you can buy a diamond any time.   As for having hordes of them *looks at ZV's wink* as east opened  I got some diamond stackeds away. But I have trashed most and have sold them only to my former apprentice and traded a few pieces for the emerald. I am strickly against running around and selling them to everybody just because I have some.  

Qui_Z - 5/18/2005  1:46 PM    Then I guess people will need to learn that they can't always have THE BEST just because it's possible to have it. I know I have, and I've went through 5 emeralds just in V2, as well as being 5 levels over the requirement for them.
  Out of those 5 I only have one amulet.
 

 I truly agree with this statement aswell and we are very alike, I went through 5 and have one ring  

lonnarin - 5/18/2005  1:56 PM  Perhaps if emeralds were made more readily available via CDQ requests, the price would significantly drop for the high end crafters.  It would be much more fun, enjoyable and profitable to a near epic character to aquire a gemstone from guile and roleplay than to simply kill 100k worth of wee beasties and fork over a huge moneybag.  

 That is seriously insulting, as I am the one of the players that have payed a large price I feel that this comment is directed at me as well as other buyers. Most of my gold comes from selling crafted items not "killing 100k worth of wee beasties" Infact at the beggining of V2 when the loot was raised for the first time I was strickly against it. Infact I am planning on soon reopening my shop, after a veeeery long brake.

[lonnarin]

Seriously insulting?  *looks confused*
Just a suggestion for RP alternatives to a big moneybag payout, nothing more...  man...   No insult was intended...  I was simply suggesting that there may be some alternate routes than buying other people's mystery minerals... Something different like kidnapping a royal member of a family or bartering with a powerful entity, something to spice things up. How you got insulted from that is a mystery unlike any mineral I've seen.

[OOwitch]

I guess i dont see the big deal.  People are starting bids so high because people have been willing to pay that much to make sure they get the item.  If someone really wants to make sure they are the one getting the emerald why should we put a cap on the amount they can spend.  you can start the bidding at 30 k but i would bet that it just means more people will bid on it at the lower price till the current bid gets too high and we are back to the same group of epics and near epics who desperately seek an emerald and will shell out the coin for it.  it is too much to ask flat out for 150k for an emerald, yes, but should we be upset that they eventually go for that after bidding, no.

[ZeroVega]

I'm fine with people shelling out 100'000 gold for an emerald. (Though I'll point out that's the reason the prices were driven up so high)
  I'm fine with bidding. And quite frankly I'm find with people asking for 100k flat out if they want to. All I think it, it's too much. Just my opinion, and only posted this so no one would misinterpret what I said above. I think it's too much, I wouldn't pay that much, but I'm not gonna argue if you guys want to. As you were!