trade skills - alternative to % chances

[Germaine Lorn]

I have been thinking about the statistical % chances of success.  I'm all for it for each chance to hit monsters/cast spells as each is a new situation.

With skills like crafting it seems absurd to use a statistical chance to succeed at a skill repeated in identical circumstances one afetr another.

My reasoning is this:  When I try a new skill I might succeed or fail.....I try again another skill under different conditions and again I might fails, new % figure used.  I woul however be "learning from my mistakes" and formalising the process(as guilds do and craftsman all over the world do).  Making future errors less and less likely.


This is not the same as gaining skill.  That would be the application of experience to new situations.  Hence the bonus for skilled craftsman.  But once something has been tried a few times it becomes easier because it becomes KNOWN, it is no longer experimental.

I think the present percentile success/failure is flawed.  Some sort of lesser XP might be gained from failure. I would really like to see success percentiles increase per failure (or success) so that enough failed rolls should increase the likelihood of the next being successful.

If this is a little unclear an example might help.

Presently:  To make cloth I have 45% chance of success...I roll....I fail.....repeat.

My utopia:  I try to stitch some cloth 45%...I roll...I make a mess of it...I try again......
            This time I concentrate a little harder 50%(one previous attempt)...I roll ...I  
            fail....Still not able to see what I'm doing wrong.....
            So I try again......55%...etc..etc

What do you think of this?  Is it viable? (script wise)
                            Is is wanted? (gamebalance wise)

Germaine

[Leanthar]

I am sorry, we will not be giving xp out for failures.  It is a balancing act here... While I may or may not agree with you the reason we are doing what we are doing is for game balance and "speed" of crafting levels.

[vgn]

You should likely look at it more as an abstraction. You are learning even when failing, but you have to succeed a certain number of times before everything "sinks in" from success and loss and then your percent goes up.

Also, from a game balance point of view, your suggestion would not work at all. It sounds find with cloth, but what if I really wanted to make "powerful crafted item X." As long as I had enough materials, under your system I just need a 5% change and then as long as I'm willing to try, the most I'd have to try is 20 times and I'd be guaranteed to have it.

[Talan Va'lash]

1st question: yes

2nd question: no

This has been discussed several times before.  Were it real life some amount of knowledge (xp) would be gained from failure.  However, CNR would just not work implemented like this (for example, you get 10% the amount of xp you would get on a success on a failure.)  A system like this would encourage you to craft something you had like a 5% chance of acctually making as you would get a large xp reward on success, therefore you would still get a sizable reward on failure, and have a chance of getting a huge amount even though you're taking no risk (since you're still getting decent xp for failing.)  It could be set so that you receieve 1xp*base craft level of the item on a failure.  meaning you'd get 1-20 xp depending on how difficult the item is, but it wouldnt really mean anything and the level curves would have to be adjusted up slightly, so it would really have no impact.

Just think of it as the amount of xp you get from succeeding on 4 out of 10 items represents how much you learned from the whole experience, trying failing and succeeding a few times, not that you only learned anything when you suceeded.

-TV


Edit: hehe didnt mean to pounce on ya... those guys *points up* responded while I was typing.

[Germaine Lorn]

Fair enough.

Glad it has been considered.  

Would be too much of a problem to allow it for non magic low level stuff?  The rational being that magic could never become mundane nor practiced by guilds...only the common 500 years of availability type of stuff.

Like making cheap arrows, hats and gloves.  Not ever magic items, nor military artillery, good weapons and armour.   Cheap villager stuff, like fishing rods, clubs, short bows, crap for adventurers and power gamers.

I'm not sure what 10+ hours to get to lvl 1 in a tradeskill actually represents?  In real life any trade craftsman will be able to teach enough in a few hours to be able to cover what would be level 1 skills

(if only Real Life had levels.....now there's a subject for a post.....what levels are Layonara players in A:  Humming movie theme tunes                 - I'm level 2, not good.
           B:  Throwing watse paper into bins            - Level 1, shoddy
           C:  Rants with no real purpose                - Level 30. This is a controlled outburst.
     
.....Oh dear..I will have to do another post...I'm far to into this....

Thanks for the comments....*crawls back uder rock*

Simon

[Germaine Lorn]

watse is a rare spelling of waste - not a typo at all

[Talan Va'lash]

Theres not much of a point of applying a different system to a portion of crafting.  For consistency, and the fact that most of the truly "mundane" items are pretty durn easy to craft.

Not sure what power gamers have to do with crafting... but, Layonara is not a place for powergaming.  That is stated multiple places and has been said many times.

Also, none of your examples are craft skills, as nothing is produced.  They would fall under the "profession" category of skills. : )

[Germaine Lorn]

yup....you got me there.  (powergaming is my pet hate number 23......)

I'll have to bite the bullet on this one....

Did have another thought....you might already be doing this....but maybe you can point me in the right direction.

If it takes ages to be a hero(and it should)  It should take ages to be good at crafting (which it does)
Heroes can go on quests and the like.  Can crafter/traders go on the equivalent?

I must admit I have no idea what a instrument maker's quest would be.

[Talan Va'lash]

There is no "quest xp" for crafting.  A crafters quest is to go get the stuff and craft it.