NWN 2

[LoganGrimnar]

ive hurd that NWN2 is comming this year or next year, will layo move up or stay here i wonder. It would like be alot of work to remake or whatever is needed to make it work for NWN 2. Anyway, just wondering if layo will be getting a 2 as well.

[Leanthar]

We are going to at least take a look at it, but no promises.  I suspect it will be released around June of next year--but that is only speculation and guessing from their hints in various posts.  But it will take a large amount of work to build up the world all over again for NWN2--if we do go to nwn2

[Chuckles_McChuck]

yeah, there is alot of custumization on Layonara.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but I doubt they will convert till they can transfer atleast 90% of what they have on NWN 1 right now, to NWN 2.  I'm sure they dont want to go backwards and not have all the goodies that we have here just for better graphics

[ZeroVega]

  When NWN 2 comes out, since Leanthar and the gang will be looking to switch over (even if it's not a sure thing) how bout we all take a look at the building and scripting system on it. We've got at least a good 200 computer savvy players here who could learn the basics in no time. Heh... bet if we all worked together we could knock it out quickly. Course, the game has to be released first.
  ZV-

[orth]

With no plans to support Linux, any NWN2 work would not include orth...

[Leanthar]

Yeah, nwn2 does not support Linux so I will be surprised if we move to NWN2 due to what Orth already stated.  We will look at it and go from there but no promises.

[Zen]

As far as I have heard "Macsoft" doesn't plan to support NwN2 at this time . So as one of the Mac users on Layonara I beg you not to support NwN2 untill all of the Layonara community can make the changeover. There is one other option for Mac Nwn users "The Open Knights" might write a loading program for NwN2 but I have not heard anything  about that possiblity.  Also (and I dont know if you can or not but) a link to the Open Knights loading program for NwN2 (if they make it) would be sweet    If not I do understand.
Zen

[Aurhinius]

I am sure you can adapt Orth.

[KageKeeper]

Aurhinius - 6/18/2005  9:47 AM

I am sure you can adapt Orth.

Oh course he could. The point is he doesn't want too.

I do not blame him. Linux is a superior OS. *grins*

[Aurhinius]

Sadly it just doesn't have the market support Microsoft does ;-)

[OneST8]

KageKeeper - 6/18/2005  12:53 PM

Aurhinius - 6/18/2005  9:47 AM I am sure you can adapt Orth.

Oh course he could. The point is he doesn't want too.I do not blame him. Linux is a superior OS. *grins*

 *BEGIN RANT*  I would just like to state that Bioware has lost all of my respect as a gaming company. They misled the public and used their Mac/Lin support for only one purpose; exploitive public relations. When the public (granted it's only a small percentage of the overall video game market) freaked out and flamed their forums on an hourly basis for a few months they decided to start up the actual coding for Mac and Lin. That was just pathetic considering "Win/Lin/Mac out of the box" was their PR slogan for NwN before it was released. In my not-so-humble opinion, Bioware flat out lied (note that there are many great people that work at Bioware and I do not target anyone in particular with my emotions but instead I'm attacking the corporate entity called Bioware).  Nevermind the fact that the actual release was delayed for a few yearsbecause at the last possible moment before actual CD production, theircode auditors realized someone had put backdoors in the networkingcode and had to rewrite a significant portion of the codebase (alongwith firing the jackasses that did it). That is just sad from a gamedeveloper's perspective and screams of poor team management.  Take a look at this fact as well, in a "cross-platform" code environment each platform should share the same options and configurability (minus hardware differences) and yet, for Mac/Lin there is absolutely no command line argument support. Nope, none on Mac, Linux, FreeBSD, etc can start up NwN and have it automatically connect to Layonara. No, Bioware did not even write any parts to the Mac and Linux ports of NwN. They just subcontracted it out to the lowest bidder.  Please do not get me wrong, I am thankful that there are these small hand-outs Bioware has given us in the neglected OS world but I have come to terms with some very important inconsistancies with this whole situation.

• Bioware exists because of their drive to make money by creating video games.
• Linux exists because of the good intentions of the community that supports it.
• Layonara exists because of the efforts of the small community that supports it.
Why are all you Layonara-Old-Timers still here? Probably because of the community, the GM Team, the main plot, the social interation and of course 'cause the Project Team does wonders at integrating just about any cool thing from the vault along with their own creations.  It's all about community.  Here in Layonara, you are not a number; you are a human being.  In the "Wide-World-Of-Microsoft-And-It's-Supporters", you are a number. You are a CD Key. I used to do coding work for DragonLanceAdventures (another NwN project) and when that had just begun building momentum the coding and design teams realized a significant and imperative need for a script function that would allow us to script your camera angles. The DLA project lead along with a few others pestered Bioware for months before Bioware decided to put one simple function (that already existed in the engine itself but was not exposed to the NwScript) up for general public usage.  How long does it take for a good idea that's articulated well to be implemented in Layonara? Not very long at all. If you get the team excited about some-such feature, chances are it'll get implemented providing it doesn't conflict with Layonara rules and policies as defined by Leanthar.  The same holds true for the Free Software community. Be it Linux, GNOME, KDE, FreeBSD, Debian, GNU, etc they are all held together not by money or the personal power it brings but instead by the communities of coders, translators, testers, packagers, and users.  All the people that like using their computers like a toaster or some such appliance then by all means stay far away from Linux unless it comes preinstalled on your appliance. Cars with their hoods welded shut. That's what you've bought into.  Sorry, but I like the freedom of choice.  I like knowing that I have at my fingertips absolute control over my computer.  By no means am I stating that Linux is better than Windows or that Bioware is "the devil".  What I am saying is that it is right for me and that if Mac/Lin support for NwN2 is not right for Bioware, then I do not belong in their community of followers.  In fact, even if Bioware annouced Mac/Lin support for NwN2, I would wait (and not pre-order like the fool I was) for the actual products to be released and then I'd wait for the community feedback to find out if they actually put co-ordinated effort into building _the_same_game_ for each platform (minus hardware differences). If Bioware did the same thing they did with NwN (ie: no command line argument support amungst other things like _no_toolset_) I would certainly NOT even consider buying the game. Even if Leanthar decreed the Layonara is moving to NwN2, I would find something else to occupy my (fleetingly) spare time on and bid you all a fond farewell.  *END RANT*  I appologize for this rant.  Thank you for your time.

[orth]

Er, yeah, what he said.

Leanthar - 6/18/2005  11:52 AM

We are going to at least take a look at it, but no promises.  I suspect it will be released around June of next year--but that is only speculation and guessing from their hints in various posts.  But it will take a large amount of work to build up the world all over again for NWN2--if we do go to nwn2

alright.... correct me if i am wrong, but didn't i read on the (always so truthful bw forums that they were going to make it as close to "backwads/downwards" compatible as possible?  and if they do, realistically what IS the chance that you can make the transition?   yes yes.. i know.. you have to see the game and code, first... but that is a pretty huge undertaking...is it possible that you will parallel layo?

also.. what is the REAL differences that they CLAIM there will be, besides some graphics.... isn't it the RP/interaction in layo that really makes the place, once you get past the work done here?

has anyone of the layo team considered approaching bw and offering to collaborate?  perhaps come to an agreement and maybe incorporate aspects of layo into the new NWN2 work?

just a thought...

[Milo]

From reading the NWN 2 interview, yes, some parts of the originial module can be imported to NWN 2, but it will more than likely be the script part, not the area.  So many efforts will have to be put in to rebuild the area itself.  (easy yes, but extremely time consuming)
  I doubt BW will WANT any collaborations.  Once they got the money out of the community, their services starts to decline.  Like any company that exists, they want profits. So once the community have all bought the games, they move on.  From what I have seen, it likes months just to get a simple wish of the community to be put in the update---because it is not profitable in the end.

[Leanthar]

I don't know so much about their service declining... NWN has been active for three years now.  On top of that it is the first "good" (and very successful) attempt at allowing RP'ers (not FPS's Moders) an attempt to create RPG's.  For that I will always, 100% be thankful for--we couldn't have asked for anything better for a first real attempt.
  I want to also make sure everybody is clear that Obsidian (not Bioware) is doing NWN 2, so the lack of support for mac/linux (even at the level that we have in NWN) is not the fault of Bioware for that product--it is Obsidian's decision (a VERY poor one in my opinion--but that is just my opinion).
  There is ONE, and only ONE, reason NWN has succeed as it has (three years now) and that is the PW's that are still running the versions.  And... PW's have a lot of Linux coders/hosters/guru's so I think NWN 2's longevity is at great risk.  But then I could be wrong...but I know I (if it were my decision) would not have said to drop the Linux support simply because (in a money speaking fashion) the real money is to keep that community and Linux is a HUGE reason that the large PW community is still here, simple as that. 

[bctnwn]

I say Layonara skips NWN2 and goes directly to Dragon Age. Of course, I am sure that would mean a complete rebuild.

[Aurhinius]

I see your point about Linux. It is an OS for me that has always been around, I have briefly played with but never really been serious about.  The situation with Microsoft and Linux is the same reason I buy a PC over a MAC any day. The compatibility/market support is just not 100%. Okay we can say that windows is flaky at best, has lots of security holes etc. The bottom line is they do something right, even if that something was being the first mass market OS. It's not as powerful as unix but then it's not meant to be.

I just don't see the point in depriving myself of advancement because I don't like the OS the game runs on especially when multi-boot is common place.  I like to keep my doors open and microsoft allow me to select ANY PC game I wish to play. Linux doesn't.

Unfortunately Linux users are in the minority and Obsidian are not prepared to spend the resources to support that minority. Especially when as I said you can have multiboot.  Sensible business decision.

I suspect Obsidian to make a fair amount of unpopular decisions though

[dfiremann]

It seems to me L has already put the best answer on the thread: "We'll see."  There is no harm in taking a look at what would be involved, and if effort vs. benefit is logical.  Also worth looking at is how many we'd lose if we did that.  But to me, it is foolish to make a commitment when we know so very little about the details.

How about we agree to cross the bridge when we get to it?

[Aurhinius]

Absolutely but it makes for good discussion. Personally I feel we may actuall have more luck reverse engineering Bioware's RPG depending how open they make it pulling it back to the D&D ruleset.

[dfiremann]

And I would be remiss without adding that Microsoft and Starbucks are pulling Pinky and the Brain's "trying to take over the World" campaign...and winning.  I would have a Mac or run Linux...but am guilty of the marketshare lure as well.  Good on you Linux folk for sticking to your guns.