PM Fix?

[PsychicToaster]

Any chance that the Pale Master caster level will be fixed?  Before anyone jumps on the balance bandwagon, the tradeoff for becoming a PM is slower progression, not no progression.  So for instance, a 10/10 would have an effective caster level of 15 (since a PM is supposed to gain effective caster levels and spells per day every other level) isntead of 10.  While that may not seem like a big deal, penetrating spell resistence, spell DC, number of missiles, number of dice for damage spells, all get locked at 10 for a boosted AC and some immunities, both of which can be obtained by certain polymorphs, other spells, or putting up with a the 10% spell failure of leather.  (finger of death + spell focus necromancy has a higher DC than deathless mastery touch, and it does damage on a fail.  It also does not require a melee touch)

[Magnulas]

Well, maybe a level 20 wizard will beat a 10/10 split but PM can become powerful if you continue to take levels in it, there summon greater undead spell is good. They can get a Lich at around level 22, it maybe will be hard to reach that level and the spells maybe will kill you instead of the emeny, but it is still very good. Sure you wont cast so powerful spells as a level 20 but PM is for making you harder to kill whit higer AC an HP and if they gained spells as a normal wizard they would be much more powerful I think. The Pale Master is fine as it is right now in my opinion , but I wouldnt mind if you made it better. I'm trying to become one myself anyway    

And you get a skeleton arm! That is the best part!  

[PsychicToaster]

I'm not suggesting gaining spells, that's the tradeoff.  Right now their spells per day progression works.  But their effective caster level doesn't coincide with it.  So they're casting spells as a 10th level wizard, instead of 15th.  They still get 7th 8th 9th level spells, it just takes longer (again, intentional).  However, any time a spell checks for caster level, it only sees 10th level instead of 10+ half the PM levels.

This is, btw, a bioware bug that has existed since HotU(?) when the prestige class was made available, not a layo bug.  However there are fixes for it, its just a boring task of editing 160+ scripts.

[lonnarin]

I think that's how it was intended to progress. In the Hordes of the Underdark manual it states on pg 30,

"Every 2 levels the pale master gains additional spells per day, as if they had levelled in their previous spellcaster class.  This gain only applies to spells per day, and not caster level"

Which essentially means that while you cast as many spells/day as a 15th lvl wizard at 10PM/10wiz, they will still just be as powerful and easy to resist against as a 10th lvl wizards' spells would be.  This relates to damage dice, spell saves DCs, added effects based off od level (like animate dead making better forms at higher levels) and everything else is based off of just your wizard level.  Meanwhile you do gain new spells, +2 AC every 4 lvls, dead animating, extra hp, immunity to hold, paralyze, stun, critical hits, and a fleshless arm that kills with a touch.

Pale Master is more geared towards physical combat than it is for spell power.

[Talan Va'lash]

PsychicToaster - 8/17/2005  1:21 PM

Any chance that the Pale Master caster level will be fixed?  Before anyone jumps on the balance bandwagon, the tradeoff for becoming a PM is slower progression, not no progression.  So for instance, a 10/10 would have an effective caster level of 15 (since a PM is supposed to gain effective caster levels and spells per day every other level) isntead of 10.  While that may not seem like a big deal, penetrating spell resistence, spell DC, number of missiles, number of dice for damage spells, all get locked at 10 for a boosted AC and some immunities, both of which can be obtained by certain polymorphs, other spells, or putting up with a the 10% spell failure of leather.  (finger of death + spell focus necromancy has a higher DC than deathless mastery touch, and it does damage on a fail.  It also does not require a melee touch)

EDIT: oops didnt read correctly. *points up* what lonn said.

-TV

[PsychicToaster]

That's bioware's implementation of it.  Its working as Bioware intended, however Bioware's version is drastically different from the PnP version.  Some of it was likely a time issue, since programmer time is costly and modifying every wizard/sorceror spell script is time consuming.  Anyway, the PnP version states:

Spells per day: At every second level in the pale master class, the character gains new spells per day as if had also gained a level in a spellcasting class he belonged to before adding the prestige class.  He does not however gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained (improved chance of controlling/rebuking undead, metamgic or item creation feats, hit points beyond those he received from the prestige class and so on), except for an increased effective level of spellcasting.[/i]  If a character had more than one spellcasting class before becoming a pale master he must decide to which class he adds the level for purposes of determining spells per day.
Tome and Blood pg 66

Highlighted the key section.  

Melee-oriented and true melee are very different.  Caster level has a large impact, especially on a server where so much is turns/level that used to be hours/level.  

Anyway, just wondering if its possible or plausible to fix it or add one of the fixes already out there.

[Talan Va'lash]

Acctually save DCs arent based on caster level.  They're Int modifier + spell level.  Though you will lose out on duration, damage, and level checks to overcome SR.

-TV

[PsychicToaster]

Right.  My mistake on that one.