Author Topic: Layonara Breakdown (Read 1372 times)

Medieve · « **on:** November 20, 2006, 01:07:05 PM »

It was fairly bothersome to me trying to make a character with so many fun subraces banned because people liked them too much. I tried to find some evidence of the problem and couldn't find the information! So I was wondering, since NWN allows you to collect profile information, would it be possible to setup a table listing the exact number and type of characters registered? Giving information such as race, level, and class?

I think this would be a helpful guide for people to see the race and class balance on the server in a dynamic way and create their characters accordingly.

SquareKnot · « **Reply #1 on:** November 20, 2006, 01:54:12 PM »

Here is a race breakdown from 4 Sept 2006. When 8% of all charcters are Planestouched, there's a problem. In the past 10 weeks things have shifted quite a bit for the better. I'll have to update the tables to reflect the current status. I have the same data for classes, but I'd have to format it in Wiki Markup. If there's enough interest I'll do that too.

Stephen_Zuckerman · « **Reply #2 on:** November 20, 2006, 04:16:37 PM »

Interest here for certain.

Medieve · « **Reply #3 on:** November 20, 2006, 05:43:29 PM »

Well, that sort of reminds me of another suggestion. The base argument of why subraces are banned is because they are becoming more prevalent in the world. I think this is ridiculous in a server that advertises that each player may have a say in the future of Layonara. If something happens like how 8% of pcs are planestouched, shouldn't the dms react by explaining how that might have happened in IC instead of going backwards and banning the race because it doesn't fit into how the world "should be." Perhaps it hints that extraplanars seem to be trying to affect the population of Layonara with offspring with a strong alignment swing? And I heard complaints that there are far too many drow. Well, apparently the drow are having some sort of insurrection in their world. Maybe in a few drow cities the political climate is becoming softer (relatively) and provides a better environment for drow of more diverse alignments in the younger generations? Or perhaps there was a cell of good drow recently discovered and routed to the surface world?

I just think the reaction to the problem could have been taken as an oppurtunity as possible story elements as opposed to restricting players to better suit a more static image of the server.

orth · « **Reply #4 on:** November 20, 2006, 05:50:58 PM »

And Ozlo, fallen hero of the defense of The Great Oak breathed his last breath and the last Dragoncalled had taken their oath to rid the world of Blood. Soon Hlint became more commonplace. A town, once a boon to the highest selection of the most curious and varied peoples in the world became more commonplace, as less adventurers congregated and a new generation began to take place.

Medieve · « **Reply #5 on:** November 20, 2006, 05:57:09 PM »

umm, okay.

And another suggestion while we're on race distribution, if the drow becomes problematic because you are afraid people are selecting them for their stats for rp, maybe you should increase the ECL to account for the difficulty they might have in finding trainers or finding any sort of service, really.

Acacea · « **Reply #6 on:** November 20, 2006, 06:31:42 PM »

And we could just limit them for awhile to stop the flood of elves with sunburns too, and let the numbers die down a bit, then open them up later with more focus on what it means to be a drow and ensuring that players understand their nature.

Polak76 · « **Reply #7 on:** November 20, 2006, 09:09:13 PM »

please....make it harder to be a good drow!!

Medieve · « **Reply #8 on:** November 20, 2006, 11:51:56 PM »

Yeah well, the drow aren't the only problem. All of the subraces are closed, including one of the subraces I'm interested in, grey elves, which there are apparently two of....

Its been several months since Leanther closed the races and only half-elves and half-orcs have reopened with no kind of timeline for reopenings.

Acacea · « **Reply #9 on:** November 21, 2006, 12:05:56 AM »

Perhaps another reason was the widespread belief of many who come to the server that they cannot enjoy themselves or make an interesting character without a subrace. Instead of having any kind of diversity among humans, you end up with fifty aasimar paladins (or even drow ones).

No one was banned from playing one they currently had, and anyone who had submitted before the cutoff was reviewed and approved. In this sense, your complaints about it not being in character hold no water at all, especially because your suggestions require deciding the reasons for a character's presence, where right now that is left up to character background. In any case orth nicely summed up a reason for the freeze, no?

The server advertises players being able make marks on the world because it is true. With quests and character actions, not by spamming it with characters that do not reflect the state of the world. Something actually has to exist before it can be changed.

Also keep in mind that Squareknot's data, while helpful, is a sampling from a period of time.

steverimmer · « **Reply #10 on:** November 21, 2006, 02:25:13 AM »

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Medieve - 11/21/2006 7:51 AM
Its been several months since Leanther closed the races and only half-elves and half-orcs have reopened with no kind of timeline for reopenings.

Timelines...well I can't say for sure that I know when the subraces will re-open obviously, but if you look at the following post:

http://www.layonaraonline.com/forums/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=30619&posts=46&start=1

Take particular notice of point 15 first of all, and then look at points 2 & 3. Its true that this isn't a timeline as such but it does give an indication I believe of when the subraces may be open...of course I may be wrong

Chnmmr · « **Reply #11 on:** November 21, 2006, 03:00:46 AM »

One thing that I don't understand is why standard race subraces are prohibited. For example, Moon and Sun elves? Surely there is nothing wrong with having just as many moon elves as sun elves as wood elves?

Acacea · « **Reply #12 on:** November 21, 2006, 03:16:19 AM »

Moon elves are standard elves, which were not restricted. Sun elves are predominantly on Voltrex and keep to themselves more than any other elven race, unless they are tying with the Grays. Possibly they are equal in NPC numbers (perhaps), but as far as adventurers go the numbers are far, far more slim.

The idea was not that every single subrace was overpopulated--no, some have very few characters at all. But the freeze on them allowed a much needed re-population of the races that are supposed to be common, spreading all over the world, that were instead under the shadow of supposedly rare ones.

Medieve · « **Reply #13 on:** November 21, 2006, 09:31:09 AM »

Well, I'm glad races are being seperated by alignment. Thanks Steve.

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Acacea: Also keep in mind that Squareknot's data, while helpful, is a sampling from a period of time.

A sample from two months ago!

I disagree on a lot of your points, but I'm just stubborn and I doubt it'll change anything.

SquareKnot · « **Reply #14 on:** November 21, 2006, 10:33:51 AM »

I added the class breakdown to the page. Scroll down to find it on the bottom. All the base classes are more common than any prestige class. The most common prestige class accounts for less than 2% of all characters. There are only a handful of characters (meaning you can count on one hand) in the "rare" classes. About 29% of all characters have levels in Fighter. It seems to fit my view of the world pretty well. I can't comment on whether or not it's right.

EdTheKet · « **Reply #15 on:** November 22, 2006, 10:57:13 AM »

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If something happens like how 8% of pcs are planestouched, shouldn't the dms react by explaining how that might have happened in IC instead of going backwards and banning the race because it doesn't fit into how the world "should be."

No, we shouldn't. There cannot suddenly be 8% planetouched, at least not without a rather artificial story which comes out of nowhere. We've had a campaign running for four years, and hundreds of pages of campaign handbook where events that happened on quests are also mentioned. These things actually happened and people participated in these events. We're not artificially introducing some planetouched invasion.

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And I heard complaints that there are far too many drow. Well, apparently the drow are having some sort of insurrection in their world. Maybe in a few drow cities the political climate is becoming softer (relatively) and provides a better environment for drow of more diverse alignments in the younger generations?

No, because other things are going on the Underdark, and this does not fit at all.

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Or perhaps there was a cell of good drow recently discovered and routed to the surface world?

Read the race write-up, it details the specifics, I am not suddenly adding lots of good drow. They're all dead/dridered after failing their Test.
A lot of people want to create aasimar paladins or play dark elves because of the racial statistics, not because of the rp challenge. It was going too far, and that's why subraces were put on hold for the time being.

Polak76 · « **Reply #16 on:** November 22, 2006, 07:23:14 PM »

(((Read the race write-up, it details the specifics, I am not suddenly adding lots of good drow. They're all dead/dridered after failing their Test.
A lot of people want to create aasimar paladins or play dark elves because of the racial statistics, not because of the rp challenge. It was going too far, and that's why subraces were put on hold for the time being.))) hehehe....I like the punishment for failure. Amen to this!

darkstorme · « **Reply #17 on:** November 23, 2006, 03:08:53 PM »

I'm all for the hold on subraces.. and on more stringent requirements for character bios for subraces as well. Squareknot's breakdown is edifying, but the main complaint is that people are taking subraces to powerbuild. EL penalties go a long way towards mitigating this - but the other thing that could be done is putting a minimum wordcount and more detailed requirements on character bios for subrace characters. As it is, it's rather subjective... with a set of rules, a sufficiently challenging goal would keep all but those interested in the RP potential out of the subraces.

Just a thought.

Chnmmr · « **Reply #18 on:** November 23, 2006, 03:30:52 PM »

I can understand the hold on ECL + subraces. I just dont think its necessary or fair to put hold on non-ECL subs like the different types of elves and halfing. The reason that lots of sunelves are wizards? It's their favoured class AND they are good at it. Aasimar Paladins? Favoured class paladin AND lots of Aasimars are paladins. I wanted Kyoro to be a sunelf Druid but discovered that was not possible sadly when I made the application for her.

Weeblie · « **Reply #19 on:** November 24, 2006, 12:03:31 AM »

Some picks Sunelves as wizards because of the increased Int (higher DC). Some picks Aasimar as paladins due to the increased Cha (higher saves and all other nifty bonuses from that specific template).

I seriously doubt everyone playing those subraces would have done that if those bonuses didn't exist and only the RP that they are good at X and Y did.

To the reader: Please... Don't respond with "I didn't...". I just wrote "some" and not "you" nor "all".