Fort Vehl Outskirts

[stragen]

Firstly:  I really like how the mercs in Fort Vehl outskirts roam all over the place.  In fact I would like to see more of this AI.

However,  I would request that the first set of spawns just outside the Fort Vehl to Fort Vehl Outskirts be moved deeper into area.  This should help reduce the number of Mercs dragged throught the transition.

As this is the first transistion from starting location it might be worthwhile to reduce the level/difficulty of the mercs...  If the goal is to make them equivalent to the old Hlint goblins (or even the old mercs) that used be around Hlint.  Currently they are far far tougher then the starting creatures that used to be around Hlint.

Second:  I would request that the zombies in gloomwoods be (slightly) increased in level/difficulty.  As this area is further from the starting point, I feel it should be more difficult.   Further the current difficulty of this area doesn't match the description on entering the area.

http://www.layonara.com/ask-gamemaster/114599-frustrated.html

[Tanman]

I don't mean to intrude in the bug report, but I'd like to point out that Fort Vehl can also be a starting point as well, which means that for those people that started in Fort Vehl, they would have a harder time at lvl1.

Second:  I would request that the zombies in gloomwoods be (slightly) increased in level/difficulty.  As this area is further from the starting point, I feel it should be more difficult.   Further the current difficulty of this area doesn't match the description on entering the area.

http://www.layonara.com/ask-gamemaster/114599-frustrated.html

[stragen]

Sorry if I wasn't clear.  What I mean't was.

As Fort Vehl is a starting location, the Fort Vehl outskirts should be made easier and safer.  To reach the Gloomwoods you must first travel through Fort Vehl Outskirts.  Currently Fort Vehl outskirts is harder then gloomwoods.  This is a balance issue.  As Tanman suggested just making Fort Vehl easier would fix this perceived balance issue.

[ycleption]

I will agree with the posters. My level 6 druid, staying on the road was attacked with a fireball from one of the elf mercenaries. I think each side of the road has two or three dwarf mercs, and three elf. The elf mercs have firebell and acid arrow, which do substantial damage against low level characters (two of the fireball did over 20 damage, but I have 10% vulnerability) but are killed fairly easily. The dwarfs deal high physical damage for low lvls (about 10 per hit?), and seem to have a reasonable number of hit points (around 50 I think, which is about as much as many 6-7 lvl PCs have). I don't think I would survive without a summon or companion in a 1on1 battle with one of them.
I have taken my level nine monk here, I can take  on stray groups of two or three that wander away from the road, but I think I would have difficulty against a whole group even using the helmet of armor. The biggest fact that concerns me is that the spawn on the right (as you're leaving Vehl) consistantly attacks when you're still on the road (I was in stealth mode with hide and move silently of 5 each when I was attacked with fireball).

[jecklar]

Just my two cents worth on the mercs outside Vehl.

First:  As ycleption mentioned, 3/4 of the time when I travel the road in Fort Vehl Outskirts, I am attacked/ambushed by the mercenary mages.  As I have intentionally NOT strayed from the road until recently, this has come as quite a surprise to me!    While the mercs are often not there on the way to the Gloom Woods, they are usually on either side of the Fort Vehl transition end of the road on the way back.  I don't think this is a leftover spawn triggered by someone ahead of me, as the mercs are usually tightly clumped like a fresh spawn when they show up on my "radar" (i.e., tab key check).  If they're present, they then initiate combat, and it has gone poorly for me most of the times (read, "I died").

Second:  I agree that the mercs are too difficult for low-level characters.  I have a 9th level paladin, so I decided to test the assurance that "any well-built character around 8th level should be able to solo most areas on West" (posted by one of the Team in another thread -- sorry, I don't recall who).  I figured one map away from a starting area would certainly count as one of those areas.  However, despite copious buffing and careful attack approach, my armor-plated butt ended up back at my bind point faster than you can say, "Holy Toran, Batman!"  I think these guys definitely need to be taken down a peg.  (By the Design Team, not by me.  *limps away to work the dents out of his armor*)

Galan "I've got a lot of hit points -- How bad can it be?" Iraes
Paladin of Toran

[hawklen]

Magic missles. My fighters bane. Other wise those mercs would be no troubles. How about removing that spell from the elf mage mercs?

[Interia_Discordius]

I think just reducing the amount of mages would be better to begin with... The fireballs hurt my rogue pretty bad and she's level 14. One would be fine, but when you're having three casted on you at a time, meep. Yay for lucky rolls and saves?

[Harlas Ravelkione]

The mercenaries are beyond a level 1 character and should be changed. Additionally they should be moved further away from the road, so that people who wish to avoid combat going from A to B can travel the roads safely.

[Dorganath]

It sounds like the key problem here is that they wander vs. being too difficult.  And by that, I mean that there were mercenaries not far outside of Hlint that were challenging or completely deadly for a 1st level character...and even some 10th level characters, if not handled properly.  This in itself is not really the problem, in my estimation.  The problem is that they can stray enough from their spawn point to be within sight of the normal path through the area.

IIRC, the mercs east of Hlint wandered, but they had a much wider and much more open area in which to wander, and as such, they could be avoided pretty easily.  The ones along the Road to Fort Llast were static, I believe, and even if they did wander, the landscape was such that they would typically remain contained and/or out-of-view of casual travelers along the road.

So, having said this, it sounds like perhaps the mercs in the Fort Vehl outskirts should be on the order of those that were near starting areas in V2 and/or their movement habits need to be adjusted.

Would everyone agree?

[minerva]

Dorg,

I just went thru there with Kat and they respawn far too fast.  I could do a continous loop of the area with minimal time between spawns.  I think I hit each of the 4  spawn areas 5 times in the interval between the CNR respawn time.

[ycleption]

So, having said this, it sounds like perhaps the mercs in the Fort Vehl outskirts should be on the order of those that were near starting areas in V2 and/or their movement habits need to be adjusted.

Would everyone agree?

Sounds perfect to me.

[stragen]

Dorg,

I just went through the silkwood cave (old sielwood cave) with a level 7 barbarian/rogue.  I was surprise how easy it was.  I recall those kobolds in the caves being far more difficult and deadly with their magic, then the old Hlint Outskirt goblins.  The Hlint Ouskirt goblins were the staple diet of level 3-5.  They were too tough for characters at level 1 and 2, you needed to visit the rats at that level.  With the same level 7 barbarian rogue I am slaughtered by the mercs outside Fort Vehl.  The fireballs and big axes of the Fort Vehl mercs are much more powerful then the simple magics of the Silkwood kobolds.  Having done this experiment I realise how much harder it would be for a new player to start a new character in layo version 3.  I suggest that the first few spawns on entering Fort Vehl outskirts be equivalent to the old Hlint Goblins.  New characters will need something easy, to cut their teeth on.  But with little XP to stop highter level characters from exploiting.

[Dorganath]

On this:

Dorg,

I just went thru there with Kat and they respawn far too fast.  I could do a continous loop of the area with minimal time between spawns.  I think I hit each of the 4  spawn areas 5 times in the interval between the CNR respawn time.

Respawn times across all servers are being reviewed and will most likely be updated appropriately for the next update. A spot check found some that were fairly low.  Thanks for pointing this out specifically.

[jecklar]

I think fixing the wandering/location would be a big help.

However, I've got to say that I could generally manage the mercs outside East Hlint with judicious buffing (in fact, it's been a while since I COULDN'T handle them).  In contrast, I got my butt handed to me by the ones on the Road to Fort Llast on a regular basis when I was lower level, so ceased paying them little visits.  *L*

These mercs outside Fort Vehl, powerwise, seem more in line with the Fort Llast set.  Yes, the fireballs/magic missiles were routinely smacking me for around 15 hp of damage each round while I was trying to deal with the dwarves.  But even after taking care of the mages first (which I did last night before my trip to Bindstone Land), getting surrounded by the dwarves is still too much for me.

So spawning them farther from the road will certainly help.  But any low-level character moving off the road for the CNR on that map is toast.  Since that's a low-level CNR item, and it's what characters starting in Fort Llast will find first, you might want to consider powering the mercs closer to the ones outside Hlint than the ones heading for Fort Llast.

[AeonBlues]

Yup, they wander.  After using stealth to pick up some cotton, my character headed back to Vehl  and a dwarf merc was wandering right next to the transition on the road.  Wandering is definitely the problem here.

Stragen: The Silkwood cave has not changed in the year that I have been playing.  It has always been easier then the red light caves.  I think it is built for a well balanced party of 1st to 3rd level characters.

AeonBlues

[Faldred]

But any low-level character moving off the road for the CNR on that map is toast.  Since that's a low-level CNR item, and it's what characters starting in Fort Llast will find first, you might want to consider powering the mercs closer to the ones outside Hlint than the ones heading for Fort Llast.

I dunno... I've lost track of the number of times I got a low-level character whacked by Orcs north of Hlint while looking for cotton or hickory in V2.

[Leanthar]

Moved, reduced in power to a degree, and the respawn time is adjusted.

All reports were very much accurate.

In next update.