Couple more ideas, Lockout timer & teleport

[Masterjack]

I have the perfect solution. Give every player an item that when used will kill them. The death will be like when a DM kills you, no exp lose or soul mother role. That way they can port to their bind stone and have to recover before they can play again. It has no cost and the recover penalty is already built in based on your character level.

The only problem is how to RP the whole thing. I was thinking that the RP reason would be, "You focus on the item and return to your bind stone.  The return trip is so exhausting that you need a break before you can continue."

To add to the RP experience why not have a built in quest where the item is one of the rewards. Maybe a second quest offered by Mordaken outside Hlint.

[Masterjack]

I have the perfect solution. Give every player an item that when used will kill them. The death will be like when a DM kills you, no exp lose or soul mother role. That way they can port to their bind stone and have to recover before they can play again. It has no cost and the recover penalty is already built in based on your character level.

The only problem is how to RP the whole thing. I was thinking that the RP reason would be, "You focus on the item and return to your bind stone.  The return trip is so exhausting that you need a break before you can continue."

To add to the RP experience why not have a built in quest where the item is one of the rewards. Maybe a second quest offered by Mordaken outside Hlint.

Oh and the item can only be used with no monsters around.

[Hellblazer]

Just a comment on the length of time it takes to get down in The Deep.

A trip for mithril or emeralds doesn't need to take 5-6 hours.  A trip for mithril and emeralds that involves encircling the areas so as to reap the rewards of both of the emerald and mithril spawns three times and maybe some titanium on the way there and back takes 5 to 6 hours.  Server logs show each cycle to go back to the deposit locations takes 40 minutes.

If you add the titanium that's really more 6 to 8 hours.

If you want to be more conscientious of your other party members schedules then don't plan such massive hauls?  Plan trips for just one or the other and one mining run.  This can be accomplished in less than 3 hours.

I agree 100% with this. Unfortunately even when you try your best to give the info on how long it can take, some people still choose to come and get stuck. Or people thought they had that time to give, but got caught short or with an unforeseen event.

The trips there or back also do not need to take as much time if the parties are more properly prepared to provide the essential defences for longer periods of time instead of resting every twenty minutes when their mega spells are spent.  Have the clerics memorize more foes, the mages/clerics memorize more true sights, don't blow all your spells when you don't necessarily need to etc.

The problem there are more in term of level and duration of spells. Some of the members of a group may not always be the same level as the highest char is. In the case of the trip you came with us. There were some level 16 -17 -18 in that group. Their spells (Talia included, and mine) would never have lasted long enough to match those of the other party members, and at those levels, they also have a limited amount of spell casting they can do. That's why there is more rest, so that some are not left out of the protection.

If you want to shave off the one hour that it takes for returning to the surface with a teleport system there's an easier way; don't loop the deposits three times and don't venture for both goods at a time.

Again that comes with the territory of having a good group of people to share the goods with.

If I can have a "Get off my lawn!" moment, there was a time when 8 people would delve for 4 hours and get maybe just 3 emeralds, not 20+ emeralds and 80+ nuggets of mithril.

I agree, but at that time, there was probably a lot less people who needed those things. Look at the levels. half of the toons nowadays are in the level 18 and over range. They are at the stage where they need the emeralds gears, and need the mithril armors, weapons, shields, just to be able to survive in the higher challenge areas. Areas that were not there back in the days, or a lot less challenging.

And then there is the matter of scheduling. It's easier to get the required number of people for a safe trip once for a long haul. It's much harder to plan ahead several little trips and hope that the people needed will be able to be free at that time.

Lastly if you have to bail for any sorts of emergencies, do so, then when you return post on the forums or inquire on IRC for a GM to give you a friendly teleport based upon the circumstances.  A simple "Hi I had to go take care of my boy and needed to bail on my party unexpectedly in the middle of The Deep, can someone help me rejoin them/return me to the surface"

That's an other possibility that is always given, but sometime that is not possible. And this system could give some more free time for the Gm's to prepare more quests series and fun stuff for the toons to do. :p

I have the perfect solution. Give every player an item that when used will kill them. The death will be like when a DM kills you, no exp lose or soul mother role. That way they can port to their bind stone and have to recover before they can play again. It has no cost and the recover penalty is already built in based on your character level.

The only problem is how to RP the whole thing. I was thinking that the RP reason would be, "You focus on the item and return to your bind stone. The return trip is so exhausting that you need a break before you can continue."

To add to the RP experience why not have a built in quest where the item is one of the rewards. Maybe a second quest offered by Mordaken outside Hlint.

Oh and the item can only be used with no monsters around.

I like it but I see two things.

One is that it needs a number of time it can be used in an alloted time frame, due to the recovery time being capped at 1 hour.

Second is of RP. If you kill the character (decide to kill himself?) that wouldn't fit with a lot of the alignment there I think. I don't foresee a Paladin of Toran committing this to get out of a cave.

I do love the idea of an item being a secondary quest reward, from a NPC.

[Masterjack]

I like it but I see two things.

One is that it needs a number of time it can be used in an alloted time frame, due to the recovery time being capped at 1 hour.

Second is of RP. If you kill the character (decide to kill himself?) that wouldn't fit with a lot of the alignment there I think. I don't foresee a Paladin of Toran commuting this to get out of a cave.

I do love the idea of an item being a secondary quest reward, from a NPC.

1. In my mind an hour penalty is plenty. If the powers that be decide for a longer one I would not be against it. We could even have the item have a single charge and you need to bring it back to get it recharged. That way they need to do a long trip back before they do it all over again. The trip I have in mind would be like heading to Lyn on Mistone. Out of the way and off the beaten path. We could even make it that you can only get a recharge once per server reset.

2. The killing would be mechanical and not RP. RP wise all they would be doing is concentrating on an item. I'm just trying to make it easier for the team to implement and still have the desired effect.

[orth]

I was going to rebut each of your points but honestly I don't have the energy.

My main points:

1. The extra hour it takes to return can be compensated by not making the mining as long.

2. If you have to bail ask a GM to later return you.  It's always possible (I'm not sure where you'd get that it's not always possible) and honestly 5 minutes of their time is not going to cause critical issues with dreaming up quest ideas or taking care of other things.  In fact most of the time it's welcomed as a task for someone to take care of to break the monotony of things they were otherwise doing.  Sure, sometimes you won't get immediate help but it's never an incredibly lengthy time.

[orth]

I want to clarify also that I'm not entirely against these ideas.  Chongo and I talked extensively about such a system.  I'm just offering means to work around them at least at the present.

It's just very very very very very very very very (did I stress that enough hehe) to cater a system to help the casual player and not have it be horribly taken advantage of by the guy who has 8+ hours a day to play.

And every time you throw in complexities to get around these potential disparities you're adding time for coding.  Time that's very limited at the present

[jrizz]

Just a comment on the length of time it takes to get down in The Deep.

A trip for mithril or emeralds doesn't need to take 5-6 hours.  A trip for mithril and emeralds that involves encircling the areas so as to reap the rewards of both of the emerald and mithril spawns three times and maybe some titanium on the way there and back takes 5 to 6 hours.  Server logs show each cycle to go back to the deposit locations takes 40 minutes.  

If you want to be more conscientious of your other party members schedules then don't plan such massive hauls?  Plan trips for just one or the other and one mining run.  This can be accomplished in less than 3 hours...

@Orth, This is a really great suggestion. I would go on more trips if I knew it was going to be a one goal one pass trip. But now days it is the standard is to do three passes on every trip and for the Deep to double up mithril and emeralds.

As a side note: The more we have these discussions about trips and CNR and the cost of goods the more I see the wisdom in the old camping rules.

[Hellblazer]

As a side note: The more we have these discussions about trips and CNR and the cost of goods the more I see the wisdom in the old camping rules.

As far as I know, and from the start I was here, that rule never changed. Correct me if I'm wrong please. But it always was 3 tries / 30 minutes.

[Dorganath]

I think he's saying that the rule which has been unchanged for as long as most can remember was wisely constructed and has withstood the test of time, even if people question it from time to time.

[Chongo]

I want to clarify also that I'm not entirely against these ideas.  Chongo and I talked extensively about such a system.  I'm just offering means to work around them at least at the present.

I still dream of the camp system.  :rolleyes:

[Guardian 452]

I felt like giving this old discussion a nudge...

Is this still being considered/discussed by the staff in any way shape or form?

[Dorganath]

Yes, but it hasn't been a priority.

My leaning is toward a travel system located in specific locations that provide a way out of the Deep (or wherever) to a selection of surface locations but which take the character out of play for some number of RL hours.

The thinking here is that it won't matter much for the player with less time who doesn't want to miss out on a trip but can't devote the hours needed for three loops and a return, and it would not unfairly penalize such players by requiring more of what they have less of already (large per-use fee, raw materials, whatever) while discouraging use of the system by those with time to spare who just want a quick way back with their hauls. It's relatively simple and would require little to no sacrifice from the casual player.

While true it would not cover emergency player departures, that facet is covered pretty well by GMs already.

So for example, someone could go to this "ship captain" (for lack of a better word this morning) and book passage to Port Hempstead, for example.  The character would then be booted and not permitted to log in again for 6 or 8 RL hours.

That's my current thinking anyway, but as I said, it has not been a priority.

[Guardian 452]

Thanks for the update!

That sounds pretty good. As you admit not the perfect system for emergency departures but also a system that will hinder using it as an "easy button".

So say where The Deep is concerned. A few places that send you to the surface is a safe locale. You are booted and wont be able to log in for "X" hours.

My only request with that would be... that it clearly tells you that you when you click on it or mouse over it will be booted. So the players dont use it and say... no fair... I didnt know it was going to boot me for "x" hours!

How about a twist on that idea. You have the option to purchase an item from some merchant. Your down in the deep and you want to quit for whatever reason. You use this "call home item" (or call to whatever locale easiest would be your bindstone) and it sends you there when you use it. It destroys itself (single use) and you are again booted for "X" hours to prevent exploiting this system.


I had a good example of when I would use this item just the other night. Enzo was down in the deep with Zig, Griff, and Gunder. we got some Titanium and Rubies. After getting both things I was dead tired.. it was like 3 am already. I could tell my RP was suffering, and I feared getting myself or someone else killed cause I was catching myself nodding off. This would have been the perfect time to use the above item. It sends me to my bindstone and boots me for "x" hours. Which I would have been totally fine with cause I was going to bed! lol



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[Guardian 452]

2 Questions

1. How long is a "number of hours" for the character to be out of play? IMO 4 to 6 hour range would work. Leaning towards 4. I cant see much longer than 6. That would be a pretty harsh penalty for using this system IMO.

2. You are talking about just the 1 character being "out of play" not the players whole account? This would be unacceptable and only reward those who have multiple NWN accounts. The way I read you D you meant just that specific character... in my case say its Enzo who used this system. He would be "out of play" for "X" hours. I could if I chose to still play another of my characters, right?


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[Dorganath]

2 Questions

1. How long is a "number of hours" for the character to be out of play? IMO 4 to 6 hour range would work. Leaning towards 4. I cant see much longer than 6. That would be a pretty harsh penalty for using this system IMO.

I was thinking 6. In the instance you described in your previous post, for most people, six hours off to sleep or go to work or whatever is plenty reasonable. Again, it doesn't cover emergency cases, but it's not meant to either. I'm not married to this number, but for 95% or more of the cases, I think it will be meaningless for the casual player and sufficient of a deterrent for someone who just wants to get back quickly.

2. You are talking about just the 1 character being "out of play" not the players whole account? This would be unacceptable and only reward those who have multiple NWN accounts. The way I read you D you meant just that specific character... in my case say its Enzo who used this system. He would be "out of play" for "X" hours. I could if I chose to still play another of my characters, right?

Correct. It would only apply to the single character who used the system. Any other characters that the player possesses would be free to play, assuming they too were not locked up by using the system.

[Guardian 452]

Seems we are on the same page with the time issue. I agree completely (don't fall out of your chair LOL) It has to be long enough to be felt and to help stop it from being used as an exploit (the hard core player). Yet not long enough to further discourage someone (the casual player).

Why wouldn't it cover an emergency though? If they use the item to port out because of an emergency they will have 6 hours before that character can play. If were truly an emergency 6 hours is nothing to worry about.

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[Dorganath]

Why wouldn't it cover an emergency though? If they use the item to port out because of an emergency they will have 6 hours before that character can play. If were truly an emergency 6 hours is nothing to worry about.

I wasn't responding to the item idea. Sorry if that was confusing.

Since you're asking though, I'm not a big fan of an item-based solution in this case, even with a time penalty...at least that's my present opinion.

[Hellblazer]

While true it would not cover emergency player departures, that facet is covered pretty well by GMs already.

I didn't answer orth on this one in the past that it's always possible to get a gm bailout. I just want to add that if this is true, it should be passed through the gem team.

Let me explain.

A while back (before this conversation had even started) I was traveling with a group in the brech mountain, not hard to do to my character at the time, but I was out of time (already late by 30 minutes) and asked a gm if I could be bailed out. I was then told, "sorry I can't do that because we can't teleport someone out of a danger zone". Which pardon me for saying so, applies for 99% of the deep :p. Now on the other hand I've seen gm that were in the group (down in the deep) log out and bail people out, but what I'm talking here is consistency.

So I think if it's Always possible as stated, it should be made clear to the entire team and that certain situation (like having to log in an urgency) be permitted no matter where you are. Of course that pauses a possible exploit to happen, but I'm sure you guys can track that well enough.

[Guardian 452]

Just as the usage of a teleport item can be tracked.

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[Pen N Popper]

Seems we are on the same page with the time issue. I agree completely (don't fall out of your chair LOL) It has to be long enough to be felt and to help stop it from being used as an exploit (the hard core player). Yet not long enough to further discourage someone (the casual player).

Why wouldn't it cover an emergency though? If they use the item to port out because of an emergency they will have 6 hours before that character can play. If were truly an emergency 6 hours is nothing to worry about.

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I think you meant player, not character. It's the player that has the emergency.

I like the idea, though I would probably abuse it. There are times when a group heads off and I know I'm not going to be able to do the entire trip uninterrupted. I'd jump into the fray and play as long as I could, then bail out. This would increase the chances of playing with groups but may not be what the team wants to see in the world.