Failing a Craft Roll

[Dremora]

Just a suggestion that came up when I was discussing the frustrations of the crafting system and why I dislike it: Why not award half the xp one would get upon success in the event of failure? Not only would it lessen the feeling of having wasted all your time and effort in running all across layonara for CNR to make something only to have it blow up in your face over a roll. It may also encourage people to craft more and make it more enjoyable knowing that there will always be some pay-off for the input of effort rather than nothing except on success. It even makes sense RPwise that one would learn NOT to do whatever they did wrong again. Learning from ones mistakes as it were

[Guardian 452]

Its the ridiculous randomness of the d20 that drives me crazy. Failing 4 out of 4 times at 65% yet going 9 for 9 at 45%. and of course spending a good amount of time and money for that one shot at 95% and I get a 1. Yeah that's always fun too  LOL

I like the idea of "learning from your mistakes" but 1/2 the regular XP when I fail seems a bit much to me... but that's just my opinion.
Maybe some kind of system similar to when monsters stopped going all they way down to 1XP as you got higher level. So you will always get some base amount depending on either the % you tried at... or the CR (Challenge Rating) of the item you attempted to make.

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[Dremora]

Meh I just thought the half would mean the GMs have less changing and tweaking in the system and make the change more likely if they agree with the idea. It saves time expenditure (i hope) and ultimately, the crafting system is supposed to be fun, so I figure this would lead to more crafting getting done by people. Not to mention make it easier on characters who either want to be casual crafters or are characters that lore-wise are 'expected' in a sense to know certain crafts, elves and dwarves spring to mind (and then ofcourse you need to know additional crafts to make the supporting items if no one is online to sell it to you). Just looking for a way to reduce frustration (especially my own ill admit), increase fun and see it used more hopefully since it won't be so all-or-nothing.

[mixafix]

If it takes a building input from the team, I'd rather see it invested in the exploring, collecting end of the task. Getting heroes out looking for/gathering, goods has to be better than the 'office' grind of making things. Even nicer if paladins could be out doing paladin like repeat tasks, and rangers out doing ranger like repeats tasks. We have become a nation of shopkeepers! to misquote.

[Dremora]

Waiting for the team to actually input on that but hopefully a simple thing like adding in xp even on a failed roll will not be too much of a hassle, and atleast imo would be a good investment of abit of time.

[drakogear]

We have become a nation of shopkeepers! to misquote.

Is that not how its always been in the world of crafting? Some gather and sell resources wile other buy and use them. Just one of the many things that help keeps the world turning.

[mixafix]

It was not the division of labour in the crafting world - it was that crafting in many ways is the focus for running, fetching and making, more like a factory rather than say have the causes more like say a  ranger searching the forest, or a paladin doing the rounds of goodness, or a cleric keeping his followers on track. My thoughts on change for what is a very limited ability for change was that I'd rather see it invested in the going out to collect aspect which most relates to adventuring.

[Dremora]

Except the whole point of someone going out to collect resources is to then construct with them. Besides how would you even improve the CNR system, it is what it is. Harvesting for later use. That is what its supposed to be; a ranger searching the forest can be Rp'd however but if he's going to get wood then he is going to get wood.. with an axe.. unless he just needs broken branches etc in which case you can RP that. I don't get the paladin thing at all in how its related unless your talking about a paladin farming to give food to others or making healing supples.. last I checked one goes out and picks them or purchases them, there is no other way unless you can suggest one? You could just do a fundraiser (like Rollins did) though if your a pally, thats a more exciting way to collect CNR (except for those collecting perhaps). The crafting part itself is (to me anyway) what seems to be in dire need of improvement rather than simply finding intricate new ways to burn resources for no gain unless you succeed.

[Hellblazer]

Except the whole point of someone going out to collect resources is to then construct with them. Besides how would you even improve the CNR system, it is what it is. Harvesting for later use. That is what its supposed to be; a ranger searching the forest can be Rp'd however but if he's going to get wood then he is going to get wood.. with an axe.. unless he just needs broken branches etc in which case you can RP that. I don't get the paladin thing at all in how its related unless your talking about a paladin farming to give food to others or making healing supples.. last I checked one goes out and picks them or purchases them, there is no other way unless you can suggest one? You could just do a fundraiser (like Rollins did) though if your a pally, thats a more exciting way to collect CNR (except for those collecting perhaps). The crafting part itself is (to me anyway) what seems to be in dire need of improvement rather than simply finding intricate new ways to burn resources for no gain unless you succeed.

Or with a fire camp. But it doesn't quite give out the same amount in the end.

[Dremora]

Bumping

[Dorganath]

Your suggestion has been noted, but I'm not going to say one way or the other if it's going to be implemented. That's not how this forum usually works.

It either will be or it won't.  Honestly, there's lots of ways crafting can be rebalanced. This is one option.  I'm presently reserving opinion on whether or not this sort of thing would be appropriate.  

The only thing I'm going to say at the moment is that a "reward" for failure is counter to every other balancing metric we have used so far, unless I'm forgetting something (which is possible).

[Pen N Popper]

Getting half of the xp seems a bit exploitable, doesn't it? Attempt some high failure chance item (rhubarb pie) without any chance of success, get a ton of xp, grind on failures.

Perhaps a weighted formula?

Failure XP = Full XP X 0.5 X % chance

100xp pie X 0.5 X 10% = 5xp

[Dremora]

The xp btw just saying is not for levelling but for increasing in skill.

As for weighted formulae, sure that could work too. Not awarding xp if something is too high a difficulty level for you say 15% and under or whatever gives you no xp. Alot of stuff is restricted at lower levels though and require you to get up to a certain point just to have a 5% chance. So its not as exploitable as you claim, trying harder things to advance up the ladder, not every person in the world wants to learn how to make ryebread if they only ever eat meat, but you cant roast venison without having levels in cooking doing what are unrelated things. Not every cook starts with the same stuff or learns as quickly. Its like saying travelling with higher levels (but within range) to get xp and better loot from areas too high for you is exploiting XP when your character isnt really doing anything but watching and throwing heals, maybe taking pot-shots. Well thats learning by example. This would be learning from one's mistakes. Sounds like it makes logical sense, but I think the formulae idea is a good idea too as an alternative if everyone agrees half is too much.