Coup De Grace

[Ravemore]

Not sure how much coding this would require, although I have seen it on another NWN server in the past. If an enemy is incapcitaed by something like sleep, daze, hold person, or hold monster, a succesful to hit either causes instant death or at the very least a will save versus death. It would also bring into play some spells for casters that are typically not used very much, or underused at the very least. Tactical uses in melee-caster groups would be expanded.

A neat little message in the box at the bottom of the screen similar to the one when named melee weapons make a kill could also flash for everyone to see...

[Alatriel]

I've seen the message "Coup de Grace" come up in game when an incapacitated or stunned creature was killed.

The problem I see with expanding it so that it was instant death is that it would be too easy to abuse by casters especially.

[ycleption]

I'm not sure what parties you travel in, but stunning/dazing/holding spells are probably the second most used offensive effects, right behind mass death (some of which also cause stunning). Seems like it would make those spells overpowered, unless you set the save DC quite low.

[Ravemore]

Hmm.. Never seen the message myself. Thanks for the info.

In regards to the other, I do not see a big issue for two reasons. One, the DC for most creratures to resist those spells are high enough to offset any real abuse. Lower level PC's would really be the only ones in my mind to derive the greatest benefit.. and two, if there was a concern a second save to resist the effect could be used. What do you think?

[Ravemore]

I'm not sure what parties you travel in, but stunning/dazing/holding spells are probably the second most used offensive effects, right behind mass death (some of which also cause stunning). Seems like it would make those spells overpowered, unless you set the save DC quite low.

Thanks for the comments... Do you think the DC would be enough to offset that?

[Hellblazer]

Coup de grace only happens when a pc hits a npc that is under a sleeping effect. Seeing it expanded to include effect that would prohibit an npc from being able to -defend- himself seems logical. Not all holding stunning etc spells robs the npc from being able to defend himself, it's why you don't have automatic  hits when they are in that predicament and why you still have a roll vs their ac. But anything that would put them in a state that prevents them from defending or moving, should have a way to trigger the coup de grace, as the enemy would not be able to move or block an attack that is aiming at their throat. That is what the coup de grace is.

[miltonyorkcastle]

Just remember.... if we made it possible for a PC to do to an NPC, we'd make it possible for an NPC to do to a PC.

[merlin34baseball]

Someone please delete this thread then............................. The last thing I want is monsters with Coup de Grace AND the Soul Mother.  Quick, quick, delete before anyone sees it!

Thanks!
Merlin34

[ycleption]

Not all holding stunning etc spells robs the npc from being able to defend himself, it's why you don't have automatic  hits when they are in that predicament and why you still have a roll vs their ac.

All stunning and hold (paralysis) spells and effects prevent characters from using  dodge, dexterity, or tumble AC - you only roll against their natural, armor, deflection, etc. AC. So no, they can't defend themselves (unlike daze).

Thanks for the comments... Do you think the DC would be enough to offset that?

I'm no balancing expert. But my guess is that it would be very difficult to come up with an appropriate DC that is neither so low its useless, nor makes stunning spells "I win" buttons, especially given the wide range of levels you have to consider.

[Ravemore]

Someone please delete this thread then............................. The last thing I want is monsters with Coup de Grace AND the Soul Mother.  Quick, quick, delete before anyone sees it!

Thanks!
Merlin34

LOL... Withdrawn. Hehehehhe.

Thought it was a cool idea on face value and saw it work elsewhere, guess all applications are not equal.

[Dorganath]

Just remember.... if we made it possible for a PC to do to an NPC, we'd make it possible for an NPC to do to a PC.

Quoted for emphasis...

Think about how often your characters get paralyzed, held, dazed, knocked down, sunned or grappled through one means or another.  As an example, those Assassin Vines on Mistone, which are quite deadly as they are, would become even more so, because the first successful grapple check would probably mean death on the next attack.

So...is it really a good idea?

EDIT: Drat, just a bit too late.  Ah well!

[Ravemore]

LOL... Beat you Dorg. (Runs away giggling...)

[Dorganath]

*makes a note in a dark and ominous-looking notebook*

[Chazzler]

Not only from Sleep effects, Görmungard can do a Coup De Grace on some very low CR creatures like basic animals and so on, when he Paralyzes them with his Terrifying Rage fear aura.

This does not apply to things like Red Light Goblins and those above them in CR, which is kinda good in my books.
So I guess it's got something to do with CR and being immobile, asleep?

[s0ulz]

Not only from Sleep effects, Görmungard can do a Coup De Grace on some very low CR creatures like basic animals and so on, when he Paralyzes them with his Terrifying Rage fear aura.

This does not apply to things like Red Light Goblins and those above them in CR, which is kinda good in my books.
So I guess it's got something to do with CR and being immobile, asleep?

A Coup de grâce is a special attack that is automatically made when attacking a helpless creature with four or fewer hit dice. For the purpose of a coup de grâce, "helpless" means paralyzed or sleeping. This special attack can be made with either a melee weapon or a ranged weapon if the attacker is within 30 feet of the target (the same range used for sneak attacks). When a coup de grâce is made, the attack is automatically successful, and the victim dies from the attack.