Longevity Rewards

[Cambo]

Hmm... well it doesn't 'cheapen' them if they're only given out once a RL year..  that's a pretty darn long amount of time.  Just think how many SS's you lose in a year O.o.  Heh, even though I haven't been playing long, I'm with Lynn and Interia on this one.  If I'm permmed, prolly just quit and spend the time I had on here towards my life in some way...

[DMOE]

Then I have a question for everyone who will quit if they perm.....

Why did you bother joining a server that has a perma death system over the many servers out there without perma death?

I have been playing here for over 2 years now.....There has been one SS return in all that time as a result of someone's successful WLDQ...I'm happy with that.  As Ed the Ket has stated, SS loss is not simply an OOC thing, therefore there needs to be a GOOD IC reason for a SS return.

I knew when I joined the server that my character could perm and I decided I was happy to take that risk to play here.

While I can understand the frustration of losing SS at the end of the day....Is not the ability to develop a character within this wonderfully world reward enough for longevity, or are we all so shallow that we require something 'shiny and special' to signify the fact we log in and play somewhere we have fun?  I mean....not like anyone makes people stay around here.

[Lynn1020]

I only said I wouldn't start a new character  because of there only being a couple of months left of Layo. O.o

[Interia_Discordius]

Why did you bother joining a server that has a perma death system over the many servers out there without perma death?

Yeah, didn't make that part clear, sorry... New characters are fun, but I've had like 8 months or something now with Kinai to get her to a desired position, and if I make a new character...

Well, sure, I could... But **points up at what Lynn said above her**

It isn't the fact the server is going to die that bothers me, as all servers die, it's the fact now there's a ticking clock left to let you know when it'll really happen. No exact date, sure, but an idea nevertheless. That kind of such changes the way players play sometimes, although I feel it was kind of the DMs to let us know in such advance.

Either way, if I perm...Well, c'est la vie, time to find a new game. Layonara and a couple other servers are the only reason I play NwN right now. It's not an addiction or anything for me like it once was, but there's just not many good servers left with a decent amount of players. I had quit NwN once long ago until my old buddies from the previous server found Layonara and convinced me to join, after all.

Like I stated before, there's good arguments on both sides...Personally though, as a player, the idea of a returned SS sounds pretty good

[mixafix]

yeah I am with ed on this aging might lose one...but no one dares, and as DMOE suggests thats the nature of the game.....


I am not sure PCs going on for ever, limited or no danger etc is what RP server is about

No risk...no gain....one door closes another opens etc...


change or potential keeps it fresh..in my opinion

[twidget658]

...or are we all so shallow that we require something 'shiny and special' to signify the fact we log in and play somewhere we have fun? I mean....not like anyone makes people stay around here.

 
 
 I guess you don't care about promotions at work, getting a 'thank you' from your husband, getting a hug from your children, getting a handshake from a friend, etc...and NOT even asking for it. You get these types of rewards and acknowledgements because the people around you want to show their appreciation, not because you do it for the rewards. It is not shallow thinking, it is just a suggestion to the staff about a way to recognize and acknowldge people for staying with Layo. Just because you do not agree with it does not make everyone else 'shallow'. That is pretty self-centered and putting yourself on a pedestal if you think your way of thinking is more superior because you are 'hardcore'. That may sound a little harsh, but I really don't care about you calling people shallow for making suggestions and recommendations. Ever been to a brainstorming conference? EVERY idea is considered. You never know, that one idea that everyone laughed at may be the companies success.
 
 Now as far as perming, I deal with death in RL and I am not in favor of it. Really, no kidding, I don't like death in RL. I am not saying get rid of the death system, just a SS per YEAR. A year is a long time and a lot of players do not stay that long.
 
 Why did I start on a server when I know there is a death system like this?
 
 Types of lines of thinking (by no means all encompassing and feel free to add some):
 

• Because it always happens to the other guy.
• I have a tactical mind and good strategies and I won't die that much.
• The benefit outweighs the risks.
• I can get into a party where I never die and still zoom through the levels with no worries.
• By the time I get to a level where the chances are against me, I will be too powerful. Hence the powerbuilds.

[DMOE]

I actually think the idea of having a SS return is a good one....I just think it should be for a good IC reason not simply a 'time' reward.  

I am failing to see why the staff need to thank people for staying with Layo beyond the quests, time and effort they put into running the place, oh and lets not forget money out of their own back pockets to pay for the servers as the donation system rarely covers the monthly bills.

Is all the team do happily for free not enough thanks to the players?

Sometimes I think people forget how much time and effort these guys actually put into this server and quite simply, the fact they are willing to keep doing it to and that allows me to play here is enough reward for me without OOC rewards.  

Does that make me superior? *shrugs* Well you've obviously made up your opinion of me and I'm not about to argue that in the forums.

As I say....Give me a good IC reason for a SS return, I'll back it, fight for it, even have my characters die for it....Well the nice ones anyway, but I will always think OOC that the work and effort the team put in so I can play here is reward enough.

[Lynn1020]

Sometimes I think people forget how much time and effort these guys actually put into this server and quite simply, the fact they are willing to keep doing it to and that allows me to play here is enough reward for me without OOC rewards.  

No not everyone forget how much time and money everyone has put in to Layo.  That includes the team and the players.  We are only talking about suggestions.  

[twidget658]

I am failing to see why the staff need to thank people for staying with Layo beyond the quests, time and effort they put into running the place, ...

 
 All right, you made me laugh on this one. No one said 'the staff needed to thank people' that is an exaggeration on your part. I am quite content with it, I was simply making a suggestion and not taking anything away from the team.
 
 

...oh and lets not forget money out of their own back pockets to pay for the servers as the donation system rarely covers the monthly bills.

 
 Yes, I totally agree, that is why I have donated every month since I have been playing...plus. Donate your level? Yep, I donated mine and others. Why do I donate? To support the server so EVERYONE can experience and enjoy EVERYTHING that I do here. It is also a way to say 'thanks' to L and to support his vision that has come alive. I do it for nothing in return.
 
 

Is all the team do happily for free not enough thanks to the players?

 
 Another exaggeration. That is almost to the point of absurdity that you would even ask a question like this. They volunteer because they want to and they enjoy doing it and giving back. That is the thing with volunteer...you can unvolunteer. No one is taking anything away from them.
 
 

Sometimes I think people forget how much time and effort these guys actually put into this server and quite simply, the fact they are willing to keep doing it to and that allows me to play here is enough reward for me without OOC rewards.?

 
 I don't think people forget it. But does this keep you from making a suggestion? Just think where the server would be without suggestions.
 
 

Does that make me superior? *shrugs* Well you've obviously made up your opinion of me and I'm not about to argue that in the forums.

 
 My opinion of you doesn't matter and saying that you do not want to argue the point in the forums in a way to try to get the last word and to try and end with without a rebuttal. I was fine until you called everyone that didn't see it your way "shallow."
 
 It is perfectly fine for you not to support he suggestion. It is perfectly fine that explain your side and views. It is not okay for you to ridicule and call people shallow for suggesting it.
 
 In closing, don't put others down to try to make yourself look better. People tend to see right through that and call it for what it is.

[DMOE]

 
 In closing, don't put others down to try to make yourself look better. People tend to see right through that and call it for what it is.

In all the times I have ever posted on these forums, which is well over 2 years now, I have never put others down to 'make myself look better' so I'm failing to see why I would start now but thank you kindly for assuming I am.  

I'm failing to see where I ridiculed people and I did asked if 'we' the community were shallow enough to want to put OOC rewards before the simple enjoyment of playing on the server.  

You may not agree with that, that's fine but I am entitled to an opinion, much as you are entitled to your opinion of me which you are happy to share with the server and when I say I am not going to get into discussing it, I am obviously wanting to have the last word without rebuttal.....Trying to avoid a public mudslinging match on the forums? Oh no....I couldn't possibly be doing that.

If your opinion of me truly didn't matter then why didn't you simply say...

"DMOE, I find the attitude that people who would want this are shallow offensive"

rather than going on a nice tirade about your opinions of me as a person and the assumptions on what I may or may not be thinking?

Regardless of how I phrased it, which you obviously found offensive....

I commented because I feel very strongly about this.  I have watched the attitudes change towards levels, towards deity relations, towards RP in general.  I have watched the team working hard to claw things back in some of these areas and accommodate differing play styles in others.  I did not want to see another integral part of Layo be lessened.

And in closing, my Mother always told me, people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones....You were offended by me being offensive, but yet you replied in an offensive manner, commenting on me as a person and making assumptions to my actions and why I acted that way - based on one comment.  I'm failing to see where you gained the moral high ground you so obviously feel entitled to for 'defending' the server from my offensive comments when you did it with your own.

You found me offensive, to the server as a whole it seems, I've found you offensive, to me personally and now I am stating that I am not going to respond to any more of your comments regarding me personally on the forums.  Not because I fear rebuttal, but simply because I see absolutely nothing to be gained from it.  Feel free to PM me any further personal comments you have about me though.

[Interia_Discordius]

...Anyhow, what I want to know is, is this a suggestion that the GMs will consider as implementing, or is it a no go? If you guys are considering it, I think the debates on the topic would be useful, but I'm getting the feeling people are going to begin looping each other here soon if it continues

Either way, I think it's a good suggestion. It's nice to have the yays and the nays going on and bringing up different, important aspects that I would like to believe is important to the server...You know, me and my two cents out of a million dollars saying this comment, anyways.

Thanks, Twidget, for bringing the suggestion up...

[Weeblie]

Primary answer: I am sorry to say it, but SS returns or another SM vacantion are two things that are a no go right now.

[Honora]

I gently suggest the heated part(ies) take their conversation to PM's?

[Acacea]

I do not think they will. I understand the basis of many arguments in the thread - for example, I don't think it's presumptuous or selfish exactly to be discussing ways of both throwing a bone to the people that have been there for the server for a long time in any capacity - yes, including just playing, because good, long term players are important in any server - and trying to stall perming a little as at this stage in the server's lifetime, a perm for someone is more likely to result in a quit than in others, and it has been acknowledged by most by now that it is not going to be 'turned off' or anything.

So no, I don't disagree or find any fault with the discussion itself, however I do feel that it is largely moot. They aren't going to give back soul strands as an OOC reward (I agree that it should involve an IC event), and with everything on their plate, Ed isn't going to sit down and try to think of an IC excuse for it to have occurred. On the contrary, the loremaster is more likely to think of a hundred reasons why it should not. They did want their IC system in place, but it did not make it - I am not sure how willing they would be to consider a sort of contrived replacement based on something like was suggested, but maybe someone can answer. What I mean is a quest similar to what they had in mind for whatever was automated, or donation of the interested party, or whatever, and perhaps could only be attempted if xyz, whatever. If someone wanted to waste a cdq... never know.

Speaking of the Loremaster, I do disagree about the aging meaning losing soul strands, by the way. It was my understanding, which will no doubt be corrected, that it's more that a soul is tethered to say, a bindstone, by those strands...after all, when you die by natural causes, or even unbound murder, your soul is taken whole. It is only when tethered to something that defies death that your strands snap one by one, instead of all at once. If someone lives out their allotted lifespan, they will die of old age - the vessel expires, and the soul is taken whole. The soul does not necessarily weaken as the body age; I think that's in some way faulty logic. We lose strands because they are under such constant wear...who knows what condition they reach the deities in after all that! But just physically old...*shrugs* It is the vessel that is cracking, not the soul within it.

((Edit - too slow. That is what being longwinded gets you!))

[/SIZE]

[Tanman]

Just for clarification....there is one way that you can retrieve one SS back IC after the character perms as stated in: LORE: Death

It is by bargaining with the Soul Mother herself and that in itself is by no means an easy feat to accomplish.

Bargaining with the Soul MotherIt is said that if a character is ever permanently dead that brave adventurers could travel to the Plane of the Lost and deal with the Soul Mother in order to get a small part of their soul returned (i.e. one Soul Strand). This would surely be a deadly and highly dangerous quest however and it is rarely attempted. Even souls that have traveled to their deities they must return back through the Plane of the Lost so one must still deal with the Soul Mother.

[osxmallard]

I'm in.  Who's with me?

- Lillian.

// =)

[Acacea]

That is for the friends of the permed character, not the character themselves, though. The actual act, I mean. And no one has attempted it in NWN and when the subject was broached it was suggested that it may not be the case, anyway. There are several people who are considering doing just that, however, but that is not at all the same and has probably a 99% chance of failing, as any death on the plane of the lost is instant permadeath.

[jrizz]

Im with you Lil. We should find plenty of help when we get there.

Wren

[Falonthas]

im game whose strand are we hunting

[EdTheKet]

Ed isn't going to sit down and try to think of an IC excuse for it to have occurred

Nope, I am not

But just physically old...*shrugs* It is the vessel that is cracking, not the soul within it.

Good point.

And a note on the bargaining. It is to bring back somebody who has permed. This person will come back with only ONE soul strand re-attached so at very high risk to perm again.
Everybody who dies on the "plane of the lost" will be permanently dead immediately. It was almost attempted once, but then the player of the permed character (who permed on one of the ECDQs I ran) convinced the players not to try it as it could mean that they'd permanently lose their characters as well.