Author Topic: Rangers Spells (Read 2360 times)

steverimmer · « **on:** February 05, 2007, 01:15:21 pm »

I was looking at the rather meager collection of spells availible for rangers in NWN recently and when comparing it with the PnP handbook, it does seem as if they've been fairly hard done to as a class by bioware. The recent threads in the forums made me think that maybe they are under powered as a class compared to some of the others. I thought that one way to improve the class would be by giving them some extra spells which would prove more useful than the few they have now, this would be better than giving them over powered feats like HIPS.

The problem is that most of the PnP ranger spells won't translate well to NWN, except for a few which are all level 2:

Barkskin (I can't belive that Bioware never included this in the rangers spell list!)
Bear's Endurance
Cat's Grace
Owl's Wisdom
Spike Growth (Another under used spell that druids get, however with druids its often overlooked as they have much better spells in that level)

All of the above spells rangers get in PnP but not in NWN, but I'd like to ask the team to consider some others which are not Ranger PnP spells but neither are they overpowered and they fit in with the same sort of theme. Not suprising as they're druid spells

They are;

Quillfire (An underpowered poison spell that most druids hardly use)
Infestation of Maggots (Another nice spell thats not two overpowered)
Greater Magic Fang and Awaken (There are alot of spells in the PnP rangers repetior which deal in manipulating animals, something which you can't do in NWN so I thought that one or both of these could make up for their loss. I know they are powerful but...the PnP ranger has other powerful spells which wouldn't work in NWN)

All of these spells already exist in the game so no new spells would have to be created, although it might be better if they weren't all level 2 in the rangers spell list as they don't get many spell slots to play with.

On the other hand if the team felt like adding a few other spells I'm sure our ranger friends wouldn't complain

Polak76 · « **Reply #1 on:** February 05, 2007, 02:14:22 pm »

Nice compilation Steve. I agree totally.

Lord of the Forest · « **Reply #2 on:** February 05, 2007, 02:38:47 pm »

I'd like to see some of those spells added and it wont make them too strong. Just look at the spellslots rangers get. Not to less and not too much.

Thoug rangers already have some of the spells mentioned ig, like Cat's Grace or Greater Magic Fang.

twidget658 · « **Reply #3 on:** February 05, 2007, 02:52:18 pm »

Thanks for thinking and bringing this forward.

Cats Grace and Greater Magic Fang are already available.

Greater Magic Fang is a great spell but the animal companions are really to weak to take advantage of it. Realistically, you are adding the spell to a regular animal. It cannot be casted on a summons.

Other spells that seem fitting:

True Seeing -- it would seem that things that use stealth would know what to look for
Find Traps
Shapechange -- would be more fitting than polymorph
Clairaudience/Clairvoyance

Ranger's spell progression, with a normal wisdom, is:
1st at Level 6
2nd at Level 10
3rd at Level 12
4th at Level 15

Perhaps spells equivant to a Wizard/Sorcerer/Druid 7th level spells also be considered

Lord of the Forest · « **Reply #4 on:** February 05, 2007, 03:08:49 pm »

Quote

Shapechange -- would be more fitting than polymorph

We already had a thread about changing polymorph for rangers. Though we still need to remind ourselves that there are many different kinds of rangers as Pankoki stated earlier.
We might even be able to change a spell this way to make the transformation dependable on a ranger's diety? We got diety summons for clerics after all.
This are just suggestions after all.

And please let us keep this a constructive thread

steverimmer · « **Reply #5 on:** February 06, 2007, 10:43:36 am »

Besides which I was mainly thinking about Rangers having spells which are available to them in PnP but not in NWN. Other spells could be added to make up for the PnP spells which are not suitable for NWN but they'd have to stay in the ranger theme, otherwise Rangers could very well ending up being something else rather than Rangers.

Lord of the Forest · « **Reply #6 on:** February 06, 2007, 11:11:31 am »

That's true .. Ranger's are no spellcasting class at all. They got a few, but useful spells.

And I really would like to see some added

twidget658 · « **Reply #7 on:** February 06, 2007, 02:26:05 pm »

Quote

steverimmer - 2/6/2007 8:43 AM

Besides which I was mainly thinking about Rangers having spells which are available to them in PnP but not in NWN. Other spells could be added to make up for the PnP spells which are not suitable for NWN but they'd have to stay in the ranger theme, otherwise Rangers could very well ending up being something else rather than Rangers.

This is true...but sometimes you have to use a game mechanic to get a "skill". For example, foraging for wood. Beautiful thinking on the Teams. However, a fire has to be built. Now I know when I pick up branches in my own yard, I have no need for a fire. But, that is the mechanic that has to be used.

Also, how do you put out a camp fire in the game? Bash it! But not really, you kick dirt on it or shovel sand on it and even get in the nearby stream and splash water up on it, whatever. But the game mechanic is bashing. It just has to be offset by RP.

Same with some of the 'spells'. Yes, they are spells and have to be cast. But they can be RP as being a 'skill'.

steverimmer · « **Reply #8 on:** February 11, 2007, 07:49:48 am »

Well to be honest, as far as the shapechange spell is concerned I'd rather that is taken away completely. Instead Rangers could have the 'Advanced Shapechange Feat' that Druids get, but as a spell rather than a feat. It'd be a lot better as the shapes are consistant with the class and they are not overpowered. However I'm not sure if its possible to do unfortunately.

IDii · « **Reply #9 on:** February 11, 2007, 10:47:28 am »

Druids don't actually just get the advanced wildshape feat. They have to spend 1/2 feats on it.

Also I'd have to say rangers aren't really shapeshifters... Druids are, shifters are. Rangers are rangers.

steverimmer · « **Reply #10 on:** February 11, 2007, 11:14:46 am »

I agree Idii, except in NWN they get the shapechange spell anyway, and the NWN version doesn't go very well with the class in my opinion. The only shapechange spell they get in PnP is the Tree Shape one, whatever its called.

However I can't think of a better spell for them to have unless it's the teleportation spell 'Tree stride', a spell they get in PnP and an ability our Druids get at level 14

IDii · « **Reply #11 on:** February 11, 2007, 12:05:51 pm »

Well it's Polymorph self they get in NWN, not Shapechange which is a lvl9 spell. Just to clear up any possible confusion above.

And personally I think rangers are more like combatants than casters. They get high BAB together with paladins/fighters/barbarians. The spells are just little extra.

They should of course get spells that boost their combat abilities in the same way as paladins do. Which they about get. Except the paladin spells are a bit more combat oriented since they're more the warrior/tank type.

Anyway I'd rather see some improvements in the other ranger areas than their spells. Though I think they could use barkskin, bull's strength if they didn't get that already and some other little buffs I guess.

steverimmer · « **Reply #12 on:** February 11, 2007, 12:50:13 pm »

Barkskin, Bull's strength...no they don't get those. My first post is an attempt to get some of the PnP spells granted to the Rangers in NWN. The problem with Bioware's version of the Ranger is that it is a half finished class. Its true that most of the PnP spells and abilities would be difficult to bring to NWN but there are some that are already in the game, its just that the Ranger hasn't got them for some reason. Since it would be harder (I think) to grant them feats and abilties that they would get in PnP, that leaves the spells.

I agree though that this would require careful thought as it would be easy to end up with a ranger who wasn't a ranger at all.

Rayenoir · « **Reply #13 on:** February 11, 2007, 11:20:19 pm »

I don't see any need to add new spells to rangers. I am however in agreement with the line of thought that says they should have more of the spells that they ordinarily have in PnP. Bioware made a lot of really strange decisions in spell arrangement, above and beyond what they moved around to attempt compensating for their really strange method of specialization for the Wizard class.

Lord of the Forest · « **Reply #14 on:** February 12, 2007, 03:20:01 am »

Well, maybe no "new" spells, but adding some of their pnp spells is alright in my opinion. Yeah, what Raye already said.

IDii · « **Reply #15 on:** February 12, 2007, 03:46:13 am »

Well I'll list my opinions of spells to add here. Just spells that exist in NWN already.

It's not necessarily spells they have in PnP but I think they'd make some sense.

Level 1:
- True Strike

Level 2:
- Bull's Strength
- Barkskin

Level 3:
- Spike Growth

Level 4:
- Stoneskin

I'm somewhat going to compare the ranger spells with the paladin ones. Since they have the same spell progression and I can say I've played a paladin a lot here.

Alright then a bit of explanation why these. The level one spell, True Strike would be about as useful as the level 1 spell paladins get Divine Favor. Short duration combat spells both, and about equally powerful seeing as the true strike duration is pretty short and rangers aren't usually huge damage machines like paladins.

Then the lvl2 spells... Bull's strength would make sense since paladins get that and Eagle's Splendor too. This way both classes would get two of the ability spells. Barkskin would help the rangers' defense abilities quite nicely and would about bring them up to the same level with the paladin spells since they get Aura of Glory that's awesome.

The Spike Growth as a lvl3 spell would be useful for controlling enemies in a combat situation which is somewhat a ranger thing. So you could use a bow and make your enemies slower with the spikes and damage them too. Cool stuff, mostly a flavor spell though.

Then finally stoneskin as a lvl4 spell. They get the lvl4 spells at like lvl14 and I think it would be a pretty appropriate level to give them something defensive and scaling with levels like stoneskin. It's still not an insanely useful spell. And seeing as how paladins get things like Holy Sword and Death Ward at lvl4, it would make sense to give rangers stoneskin as their "highest" spell or so to speak.

steverimmer · « **Reply #16 on:** February 12, 2007, 06:32:05 am »

I agree Idii that seems like a reasonable list of spells...though I'd suggest that they lose polymorph at level four which isn't a Ranger Spell in PnP, in exchange for Stoneskin which isn't a ranger spell either although its more appropiate for the class and Layonara.

Lord of the Forest · « **Reply #17 on:** February 12, 2007, 09:02:48 am »

Indeed, I agree with IDii and steve here. Polymorph isnt really that big of a loss. I don't know if Stoneskin is that fitting for a ranger though. But I agree with everything else here.

Filatus · « **Reply #18 on:** February 12, 2007, 10:47:19 am »

True strike while being a level 1 spell and pretty good one for fighters is actually very arcane in nature.

Bards don't get it for a reason after all.

It's bending the weave in such a way you can predict, subconsciously perhaps, the next few moments. And I really don´t see a link to nature there.

Stoneskin makes sense, after all, druids get it I believe. Though together with bladethirst and the spells they already have they´ll pretty much be able to ditch the mage and go off alone.

EDIT: DR was I think, always limited in Layo. Ethereal Visage was changed for a reason there. I don't know, perhaps a lesser version of the spell. Much like blade thirst is good, yet not quite as good as greater magic weapon.

Lord of the Forest · « **Reply #19 on:** February 12, 2007, 11:05:47 am »

Blade Thirst is only 1 round/level. And they still wont be able to go off alone, it just improves things a bit.

And about the True Strike, you can get a bow with TS anyways, so I dont really see a real problem here.